The Social Media Takeaway - Louise McDonnell

Breaking the Stigma: Why Therapy is Important for Everyone

• Louise McDonnell • Season 1 • Episode 9

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"Our mental health struggles are gifts from the body for you to come home and take notice, and if you don't take notice, I tell you it will scream louder." - Mary McHugh

In this episode, Mary McHugh, an award-winning psychotherapist with over 20 years of experience discusses her journey from a challenging personal life to establishing a successful career in psychotherapy, highlighting her work with various Irish support services and her role in founding counsellingonline.ie, a global counseling service. She shares her insights on the significance of normalizing therapy, the impact of COVID-19 on mental health, and the importance of human connection in the age of AI and remote work. Mary also talks about the benefits of therapy, the potential of AI in counseling, and offers advice on maintaining well-being in today's fast-paced world. 

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Welcome to the Social Media Takeaway. I'm your host, Louise McDonnell, and today I'm speaking to Mary McHugh, an award winning psychotherapist and the founder of CounselingOnline. ie, a pioneering global counseling service. Today, Mary shares her insights on normalizing therapy, the impact of COVID 19 on our mental health, and why she believes every single person needs therapy.

Louise McDonnell:

Hi Mary Mary McHugh. You're very welcome to the show. Mary is an award winning psychotherapist with over 20 years experience in the counseling field. Mary has worked with the Irish society for the prevention of cruelty to children. Cura, which is the Irish crisis pregnancy counselling service, male support services, the Irish Carers Association and the Mayo Rape Crisis Centre. And she is also the founder of counsellingonline.ie which is a nationwide service.

Mary McHugh:

Worldwide,

Louise McDonnell:

a worldwide,

Mary McHugh:

global service. Yeah, global service.

Louise McDonnell:

Oh, wow. And you never went to the dot com?

Mary McHugh:

No, we didn't. No, we're Irish in the global world. Yeah.

Louise McDonnell:

Oh, I love it. Mary, you're very welcome to the show.

Mary McHugh:

Thank you. Thank you so much, Louise, for having me. It's just so lovely. And when I hear that, I suppose it's, it seems like so long ago that I would have been involved in all of these organisations, I suppose, after I'd have finished my training. And, you know, so just, just to hear the, the names and to go back in my head to the places, and it's just lovely. Yeah.

Louise McDonnell:

Oh, tell us about your journey, Mary.

Mary McHugh:

Well, so I'm probably over 20 years as a psychotherapist, so it's, it's quite a long time and even more if I go further back, I done a two year foundation course. With the lovely Jean Farrell I don't know what you've ever heard of Jean Farrell, beautiful lady, a wild, lovely lady, wild in a beautiful way. So she was doing it through the Maynooth University and it was actually in Castlebar in Mayo. And so I'd done two years with her. My children were tiny at that stage. So my youngest is now, he'll be 30 next birthday. So that, that lets you know 25 plus years ago. I would have done that. And so from there, I suppose I've always, always had an interest and just, it's just, I suppose, vocation is the word for it to support and to help people. And I think, you know, when I went to school, I wanted to do social care, but life took over, and, and it just didn't happen. I had an accident, and that didn't happen, and I ended up then getting married very young. I was 19 when I got married. And from that, it just went into marriage, I suppose, the marriage broke down after six years, I was, I was pregnant with my third child, I was about 25 at that stage, and I suppose my focus then was really on, on raising my kids, and and that in itself, you know, was really hard financially, lots of, lots of ways it was hard. But I slowly got myself going and started working maybe part time, I ended up working for SuperValue. I would take care of all of sort of the pricing and all that sort of stuff for them. And so with that and saving up money to go to college and study psychotherapy is a huge investment, you know. So I worked very hard got my studies. And got qualified and from there, Louise I suppose I haven't stopped since, you know and, and it's been, you know, just, just a great journey, you know, a really great journey of being with people. And, and, and that was, that was how I began, I suppose, and that was my, my road. So as I said, my youngest now is 29 coming 30. I have four grandchildren. And, and it's just like, you know, it, we have, everything has its ups and downs as in life. We, we all do as human beings and, you know, it's just great to be in the ups and to go through the downs and back ups again. And that's life, you know? So I suppose my, my biggest thing is to normalize. Struggle, you know, and I suppose I, I know it in a lot of ways from the inside out. And that, I suppose, is a gift, you know, when sitting with somebody else.

Louise McDonnell:

Hmm. So tell us about Irish, or sorry, counsellingonline. ie.

Mary McHugh:

So Louise, we went totally against everything to set up counsellingonline. ie. We'll be 13 years old in July. And so if you can think back to 13 years ago doing something remotely was unheard of. And particularly in the field of therapy. We knew without a shadow of a doubt, myself and my, my colleague, Danica Monk, who set it up, both of us came together to set it up. And we set it up because we knew there were people that were really struggling and with all sorts and even anybody listening to this could have maybe a teenager stuck in the room, maybe a partner stuck in their room and the anxiety can be so high or they may have a disability that they might find it really hard to go into an office and, and sit with somebody face to face or because of their profession, they don't want to be seen knocking on the door of a place that is for therapy. Because unfortunately we still have a huge stigma around therapy and, and we need to change that for all of our sakes. We need to change that. We all need therapy. Everybody. It's the greatest gift that we can give ourselves to be fair. So in 2011. We have accrediting bodies that, that keeps everything, you know, safe, but we knew that they would not be in favor of what we were doing, and yet we felt obligated to reach people who weren't being met. So we went against the grain of everything and took a huge risk. And as I said to you, I was a lone parent with three children. And for me, it was a huge risk of my career. But I had to balance it with my felt ethical obligation to human people, human beings, that that actually they needed to be met. And. So we set it up, but the only way you would find us and not many people were really on the internet too much 13 years ago, but the only way you would find us is if you were Googling specifically for counseling online. So, you know, so you found us there. So about 2015, 16, maybe. We really were able to put our shoulders back and we had evidence base to show that what we were doing was really working for people. And that gave us courage and confidence and to actually hold our head up and say, yes, we are doing. Okay. So even our peers would have touched us what we were doing. And so we had a lot of Just, it was really difficult, I suppose, for us, but, but we knew, we knew, and we knew from the work we were doing that people were, you know, it was really helping and so from there then I suppose roll it on to COVID, so COVID then hit, and suddenly every therapist was in turmoil because they had people, you know, all over the place and they couldn't see them. And they had no option but to go online. And they were bowled over. They couldn't believe that it worked as well as it did. And and that's it. So we are, I suppose, as a team of 30 therapists now working with counselling online. And as you said at the beginning, you know, all over Ireland, no, we have been in Japan, Dubai, Australia. All over the world, you can name a country, and we've been in there since 2011, because they were the most people that were contacting us, our young people and our people that had immigrated, that were looking for a familiar voice that culturally got them. So anybody listening that has family all over the world, please let them know about us. And you know, I always say Louise, we're a heart business. We, we, we built from a place of heart and just that want to support whoever needs support in, in however way, whatever way. So you don't have to talk. You don't have to be seen like we are. You can type. Because some people are that anxious, they don't, they can't handle the sound of their own voice, let alone to see themselves, you know, so it's, it's, it's very complex, but, you know, we do the very best that we can to meet them or whatever, whatever the reason is.

Louise McDonnell:

And, you know, really, it was such a blessing in disguise that you took that leap 13 years ago, because. Like, I know what I do is totally different to you, but I had already been training online before the pandemic. It just meant that there was demand, there was way more demand than there ever had been, but you don't realize at that stage. And you probably mightn't have realized the skills that your team had built up by already have been used to deliver an experience online because it is different. You do need to connect with people in a slightly different way. So I just think it was a total blessing in disguise because you were there ready to roll and ready to help people. And you were so good during the pandemic. You used to go live every single day. I used to feature you in all my training courses. I'm like, here, look at this. How you actually don't, you know, just don't tell people what you do. Just do it for them. Here's the people doing it live on their, on their social media.

Mary McHugh:

Yeah, and, and we really, you know, because I suppose we knew because we were doing the work, but there were, there were lots of people who were in the process of working face to face with therapists and they were left. And I thought, Oh my gosh, how, how do we reach them, you know, just to, to hold a space for them. And, and that's what I went doing was sort of, we'd go on and we do loving kindness, we do talks and We also then done training for therapists free of charge, the therapists around the country, and we opened up our service to give them a teaching and just the basic skills in how to hold somebody online. It's further proof that that's what we're about. We want to let people know we're here. We want to be a household name should, should people ever want to use us and it's not that they, you know, may use us, but they may know somebody who, do you know what, I listened to whoever, you know, Mary talking and, you know, to know our story and, and actually, I suppose what has happened now is there's lots of businesses that have came now up Since COVID that actually at the helm there may be, you know, there are business people which I have had to become, but my grounding is in psychotherapy. And so it's from the inside out we get people. We're not a business person setting up an online counseling because we think it's lucrative. It actually isn't. That's the truth. It's a vocation Of supporting, but, but in order for it to work, we've had to build a business plan.

Louise McDonnell:

Well, as long as I've known you, I've only ever known Mary to be just the best, nicest, good person, like, and wanting to help people. So I can totally second that.

Mary McHugh:

Thank you.

Louise McDonnell:

From your experience, then, of running counsellingonline. ie, how do you think the pandemic has affected our lives?

Mary McHugh:

Both positive and negative in a very positive way, it has opened up the world of online for the likes of people accessing support, you know, so that has been one really great piece. I was watching, and it was on player I didn't get to watch the Botox thing. You know, we have all these lines and wrinkles and, you know, all of this sort of stuff going on. That part is really sad because how lucky am I to have all these lines, to get to a stage in my life that actually I have all these lines and wrinkles and, and it is who, you know, that's what makes me. But we have became so self conscious, and we see ourselves up close, and, and we can have an issue with that. And so that may be one of the things that I that I would see, and, you know, as a downside since the pandemic and and and particularly for our young people, you know, there's been a lot in the media about these skincare products and and I love I'm a girly girl. I love my lipstick. I love my nails. I love, you know, I love all that sort of stuff, but it is when our young people are looking for this sort of stuff that actually is damaging that beautiful outer layer of their lovely skin. So, so that's, that's one thing. The other thing is that there is, since COVID, there is, there's no off time for a lot of people, you know you are constantly checking. So, so it really has became an addiction. Our phones is, Is the new addiction and and it is quite a serious addiction. It is messing with the pathways in our brain. And with that, there's more access, you know. So again, I, I worry, I see it in my work every day. I see it with what goes on actually in our world, you know. So the brains are being impacted by what the visual images that are being imprinted. And that they can't erase what they're seeing. So look, it's, it is as it is. But, but it is I suppose the onus really is on parental control, really, you know, and, and that's easy said, but, you know, I think there's new stuff coming up there's a lady and I can't think of her name, but she's actually doing great work around minding. minding the Internet for our young people, you know, so that I think I've gone off topic a bit, but that would be one of the things that's, you know, I suppose COVID has really highlighted the constant on our phones and maybe we're telling children not to be on our phones, but monkey see monkey do. You know, we can't because we're on them.

Louise McDonnell:

This is so true. This is so true. OK, then what about the move towards remote working? Are you seeing that? What impact is that having on mental health?

Mary McHugh:

So one person, it can really isolate them. Again, our phones are preventing eye contact. So our screens, you know, so for on zoom meetings all the time all of that is affecting us. And we have our just for each, you know, all these crowds that we can dial our, you know, our shopping, pick it up. We don't have to talk to anybody. And the more we don't exercise that muscle of connection and relationship, the harder it is to do that. And the more isolated we've become. And we can only survive really through relationships. So so actually it's so bad for our health not to be connected. And that is one of the downsides of remote working. So if you can and I think you swim and you know, so if you can put in these things that actually I meet a few people. So every morning I'm swimming. I haven't swam now this week, but every morning that, you know, 745 in the morning. There is two of us and we go for our swim, we connect or if we wait till eight o'clock, there's another five or six there, but usually my day starts, so I'm back and ready for work but, but it's that, join a choir, like, like you would do the singing, these are the things a guiding club, find things in your area, great do the remote work, because it can, for some it's great, For others, they absolutely hate it, and maybe, you know, they've been forced into remote working. So, there's lots of different things about it, but again, the only person that can change and make it the best is you. You know, so, so the, the, the onus is on yourself to set a structure and routine because when we're sort of, we can be sitting here with our pajamas on, you know, from the bottom or whatever, nothing on from the bottom,

Louise McDonnell:

Oh God

Mary McHugh:

know, so, and, and that's the reality. There's something about getting up, getting dressed. And starting your day

Louise McDonnell:

I work remotely most of the time, but during the pandemic, when I'd be coming down to do my training I'd certainly be nicely dressed. I'd have my make up on, and I'd have my perfume on.

Mary McHugh:

Yes, me as well.

Louise McDonnell:

My husband used to say to me, why are you putting on the perfume? I said, because it's, for me. It's, it's there.

Mary McHugh:

I'm exactly the same. I love my perfume and I put it on for me, I, I only said that yesterday.

Louise McDonnell:

Then, you know, I mean- I feel good, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and, and it's so important because. It's very easy for that muscle of I suppose, depression to move in because, you know, it's that we just become lethargic. We, you know, it's like you're, you haven't then time to make a dinner and you'll sit and you'll be picking and you'll go and you'll pick and you'll pick and, you know, so structure is so important for us for our day. So, okay, so just to recap on that advice for anyone working remotely or advice for anyone who's not feeling well in general, I suppose. Human connection is vitally important. Go find something to do, whether it's a swim, a walk, a sing, singing is very good or you know, playing cards, yoga, meet people, meet people and okay, that's number one, two, put a bit of structure. A bit of structure in your life. Three, show up, I suppose, you know, don't put on the perfume. The perfume and the lipstick.

Mary McHugh:

Because this, this time of year is just such a beautiful time of year and, you know, for anybody that would even just take a new hobby like, like gardening, like, and it doesn't have to be, it can be a crate, you know, fill it with soil, put a few seeds into it. And again, that's given you a purpose that nurturing that seed that watching it, you know, and you watch it grow and grow and grow. And I have to say, I suppose this is my third year doing my vegetables and there is nothing nicer to sit at a table with your spring onions, your beaters, you know, these things that actually. I've grown myself. And it's that sense of accomplishment. We sort of, we sort of need that. And it drives us then like, you know, because we see a result from something. So, so a hobby like that, or, you know, I have lots of different kinds of hobbies from, from crochet to whittling with wood. I love just to whittle with wood, with knife. Anything that, that gives us you know I suppose purpose or joy, joy, I suppose, you know.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah, I know I, I grow flowers and when they come out, like when I'm driving around the house, like I, like I'm admiring them.

Mary McHugh:

Absolutely. They're your babies.

Louise McDonnell:

Oh look, they're so beautiful. I did that. Yeah, so okay. And then the other bit of advice that you mentioned earlier on just to bring it in is, is to limit your screen time. If you're going to tell your kids to limit their screen time. Maybe we should all limit our screen time.

Mary McHugh:

Yeah, yeah, because there's that feeling as well, Louise, that, that actually we're, we're on demand and we're not, it's, it's all in our heads. You put your phone away for two hours, the world isn't going to fall away and, and hands up, you know, I suppose, you know, because I run a business that is my business, you know, and, and it's like I have to very consciously and I don't always, so hands up and again, that's the part that we're all human. I have to work really hard and I don't get it right 80 percent of the time. But, you know, there are times that I say no, down. And the world hasn't fell apart while I've put it down. But it's probably a fear, you know, you just, you're on demand.

Louise McDonnell:

And I suppose the other piece of advice that you would give would be to reach out and get help.

Mary McHugh:

Absolutely. Well, as I said to you earlier, you know, and again, it's not selling counseling online at all. It's however, however you do it. And it's the greatest gift and people think that you have to be in the direst of straits to, to go for counseling. Actually, it's such a gift to finding out who you are because we're so busy doing stuff outside of ourselves that actually, who the hell am I? Hey, I'm a business owner. I'm whatever. I'm a mother. I'm a father. But, but actually who am I? What makes me tick? Why are these things always happening that I'm back here with the same shit? You know, and it's that because we all have that. The same scenario tends to happen over and over again. And that's where counseling comes in. It's like it gets you to look at everything, open it up and you begin to see. And then you begin, you begin to make the changes and life transforms for us. You know, we find joy and we're able to lean into the uncomfortable because what we do, if something is uncomfortable for us, we reach for a drink, we reach for the phone, we reach for food and where actually that's all things outside of ourselves. Whereas if we reach within and it will begin to tell us the body is very wise and it starts to tell us. And I always say, if you don't listen, it will drag you down, whether that's through panic attack, through addiction, through depression, anxiety, it pulls you right down. And they're actually gifts. Even though you think they're the awfulest thing in the world and our mental health struggles are gifts from the body for you to come home and take note. And if you don't take notice, I tell you, it will scream louder. And that's when we're in trouble.

Louise McDonnell:

OK, and so on average, like people that are go for counseling, do they have how many sessions or is that a silly question or how does it work?

Mary McHugh:

It's a very, very silly question. Sorry, and I don't mean it like that because I couldn't answer you.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah, it depends obviously on the person

Mary McHugh:

I have. And again, I have one person I'd say I have her about five years. This girl would have Working through her career, working through her relationships and, and it's evolving, you know, the way we have people in our lives, but we have stuff that we sort of need to say that we can't say to anybody else. And it's to have that place that actually I can put all of this stuff out here. And somebody holds it for me and really hears it. But the average would be about six to ten.

Louise McDonnell:

okay

Mary McHugh:

because it takes time. You know, Louise, again, when I would go, say, if I was to go to you for therapy and I'd never met you before, well. Understandably, my back is going to be up, you know and then depending then how the relationship is going, whether I feel, oh, God, you know what, she's lovely, I feel. And then the shoulders start to come down. And then the body starts to relax even stuff that we don't even think is an issue starts to show itself, you know, so, you know, so that takes a few weeks for that connection to be made. And then the work and then the integration and then the flying off.

Louise McDonnell:

You probably would argue as well that it's something that you, it's like you go get your hair done every however often you go, you look after, you know, your nails, you get your nails done, whatever. And should you just have a regular counselling session? Just,

Mary McHugh:

you have to be mindful. So because the lady that I've said is five years trauma, trauma is huge, okay, so can be really, really, really slow work and it needs to be in order to get that person to a place where they feel safe enough, while I say five years, that's working with somebody that would have experienced real trauma so say our appointments, our appointments are 70 euros, that's, that's what our appointments is. So you go and you get a facial. I don't know anything. I don't know. I don't get facials. I don't, I don't go to hairdressers. I don't get facials. I'm, I'm lucky I have, you know, nails have grown naturally, so I'm, I'm lucky in lots of ways , but I, I have no idea. Probably a facial is about 70 to a 150 Euros.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah, I'd say about right,

Mary McHugh:

that would be to get your hair washed and done. I've no idea. And, and some people will do that, you know, every week. And you know, again, if that's your therapy, great. Do you know, it's like whatever works for you. And my mother would always say, you know, you should be out digging the garden, that's good therapy for you, and and it is. So, again, I'm not pushing counseling online, but for you to do a real introspection on who I am, what a gift, what a gift.

Louise McDonnell:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. So I'm going to move on now to the subject of of AI. So okay, so a bit of an intro here. So chat GPT 3. 5 had an IQ apparently of about 89. Okay. So to put this into context, Einstein has had an IQ of 160 and within the matter of a few months. Through not much into not much, it taught itself, basically got 10 times smarter. Chat GPT 4 has an IQ currently of 159. So that's nearly, nearly as smart as Einstein. So what they're saying is that the next generation of chat GPT, which is chat GPT 5 or whatever that will be, and it's coming possibly in a few months.

Mary McHugh:

Yeah.

Louise McDonnell:

That they anticipate that it will have an IQ of like 1600. 10 times smarter than the smartest person that's walked the planet. Yes. I don't know where this is going to go because like the AI are just going to be so much smarter than us.

Mary McHugh:

Yes.

Louise McDonnell:

So do you see it? Where do you see that kind of, I suppose it's, it's working, playing out.

Mary McHugh:

It's scary. It's quite scary for, for our world. Very scary for our world and, and what's out there for our young people you know, thinking of going into careers, you know, that, that actually is going to be obsolete. Everything is going to be obsolete. But at the end of the day, I feel, you know, and I said it to you earlier, the relationship is key. There's great things maybe coming out of AI and, and I suppose just in the, in the world of maybe counseling. And psychotherapy, absolutely, it's going to impact and, and, and I don't see that as a bad thing because I suppose at the heart of what I'm about is us really helping ourselves to the very best of our ability. And if it is a thing that I can get like a cognitive course. That's actually going to help me cognitively break some of the patterns of behavior that's going on in my life and that that can be done through AI, but, but what it's doing, it's isolating us because the relationship and the human side, you know, and, and who knows, they may become very human, like in their, in their answers and, I suppose, what is this and, and we, we walk every step along the way and see where we go with that and what happens and that is I, it's, it's scary. It's exciting. So it has both.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah, no, I, I agree. I mean, it's coming. So, so the genie's out of the box. So, so we just have to go with it, whatever it's going to be. But I think it probably goes back to what you said earlier on, that the human connection possibly becomes even more important than ever.

Mary McHugh:

Yes. This wave of isolation that has came with since COVID that we had to stay home and come home. And, and a lot of that, I seen that as very symbolic, that actually we were so outside of ourselves that we need to come home here to ourselves. But what it has done because of social media and all of that, like if social media wasn't in it, it might be a whole different way of life now post COVID as opposed to now because there was so much exposure on, on, on social media. But what it has done, it has isolated and caused huge confidence issues for everybody post COVID because we're all going through transition periods, but, but for the likes of the children that went from sixth class into first year, the ones that went from leaving certain to first year in college, from 16 to 18, when they're starting to get out into the world and have fun and fly their wings and they were curtailed for the, the mother that was pregnant during COVID, my own daughter, it was, Horrific. You know, what went on. So all of that, the people that lost people during COVID, you know, that the damage is only just starting to show its head now of the impact that it has had on us and and will continue to do so because there are people who just won't leave their house now. They're picking up their collect on, you know, shopping, food. Obesity is becoming a huge issue. So there's a lot.

Louise McDonnell:

So even if the machines have an IQ of 1600, we still need human touch, and I have demonstrated that in spades. Yeah. Yes. Okay. What advice would you give your younger self? You can choose what age you're going to go to in your head.

Mary McHugh:

I suppose to have done more work earlier, maybe on self esteem and confidence, who who I am I suppose if I was to have a wish for her that there would have been it would have been the norm to build our self esteem and confidence that we're able to go out into the world and with our heads up because I think our Irishness keeps us you know, that bit sort of down and don't dare put your head up and that would be a big thing, you know, so even though you're successful in business Yeah. A wish for me would have been that that actually we would have been really supported to be the very best that we could, not in an ego sense, but just in the best, you know, to develop the best of us that we could.

Louise McDonnell:

And what a lovely message to end on International Women's Day. That's such a lovely message. A lovely message. So, recording this on International Women's Day, a lovely message to everybody, you know, to lift up your head.

Mary McHugh:

That's it. And I know on my Instagram today, I put up a post that behind every woman, there's a There are great men, you know, and it's to really acknowledge as well. I think our, our men sometimes don't get acknowledged. We have a lot for us women the men, whether it's in business and life. They're also so important to and need to be nurtured because that that as well it can be hard in this world being a man to as it is for a woman.

Louise McDonnell:

I think it can just be hard. So, Mary, how can people find you? Apart from your website, what about social media? Where can they find you?

Mary McHugh:

Okay. I'm going to laugh now, Louise, because I just say I'm the oldest swinger on TikTok. So I'm on TikTok at counsellingonline.ie. I'm on Instagram at counsellingonline. We're on LinkedIn under my name and Irish online counselling. On Facebook as well. So we have a huge reach. But what we find is that people don't like our comment on our posts. And I suppose what I would be looking, anybody listening, just play your part in breaking the stigma of mental health and clicking like of anybody's mental health post because what you're doing is you're saying it's okay and it is okay. That's the thing. It is okay. So every Tuesday night, what we have on Instagram and LinkedIn, we have it on all our platforms is an"ask the therapist" section. So there's two therapists because I, I want people to see who the therapists are that work within counselling online. So you get a feel of the therapist. They're talking to me and maybe they'll go on their own to two of them on their own at some stage. But we get questions sent in privately to our social media boxes and we answer them online. And if anybody has any questions about anything, we will do our very best to answer them. So that's proven to go really well. We talk on all topics, depression, addiction, grief, ADHD, spectrums, you know, so whatever it is that's going on for somebody, body issues, family issues, relationship difficulty, all of that.

Louise McDonnell:

Brilliant. So every Tuesday,

Mary McHugh:

every Tuesday at 8pm, ask the therapist,

Louise McDonnell:

ask the therapist and normalizing mental health. I was just, you know, saying earlier on, I have a friend in the States who's constantly talking about her therapist, her therapist, her therapist, and I'm like, gosh, wow.

Mary McHugh:

But isn't that so great? Because, you know, if you were to go to the dentist. If your teeth were bothering you, you'd go to the dentist. You wouldn't think about it. If your foot was bothering you, you'd go to the physio. So if your mind and your thinking is bothering you, it's another part of your body. You go and you get it looked at. And we need to normalize it. That's it. Yeah.

Louise McDonnell:

Thank you so much, Mary, and there's so much in that to anyone who's listening. Who feels they might need some support or even if they know somebody who they think may need support, whether they're in Ireland or anywhere in the world. Counselingonline. ie for your little bit of Irish support. Yes. You don't even have to talk. You can type if you don't want to show up in person. I think that's fabulous. So it's wonderful. She was there way before the pandemic. She took the chance. She went out on the limb. She went against the grain. She did it. And I think we're all benefiting from it. So thank you so much, Mary.

Mary McHugh:

And thank you, Louise. Thank you so much doing your part, you know, putting out about mental health, because it's so great and I'm so delighted that you asked me to come on because I love an opportunity to talk about normalizing mental health. So thank you.

Louise McDonnell:

Oh, thank you. Thanks for listening to the social media takeaway podcast. If you loved this episode and want deeper support with your marketing, head over to sellonsocialmedia.academy/hello