The Social Media Takeaway - Louise McDonnell

Customer Connection = Cash Flow: Strategies for Consistent Engagement

• Louise McDonnell • Season 1 • Episode 28

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In this week’s episode of the Social Media Takeaway, I speak with Louise Lally, a learning and development consultant specialising in the retail sector and host of the Retail Podcast. We dive deep into the concept of valuing time as a critical component of customer interactions, emphasising that every minute spent with a customer should be seen as a fair exchange. Great customer service is crucial because it directly impacts customer satisfaction and loyalty, which in turn drives business growth. Tune in to learn practical strategies for enhancing your customer service approach and ensuring that your interactions are always adding value.

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Louise McDonnell:

Welcome to the social media takeaway. I'm your host, Louise McDonnell, and this is the show where we talk all things social media. So make sure that you subscribe and that you don't miss out on this episode or any future episodes. And if there's anything in this episode that resonates with potentially you or a friend of yours. Make sure that you share the episode with them. So today I'm really delighted to welcome Louise Lally as my guest on this show today. So Louise is a learning and development consultant and specializing in the retail sector. And she is the host of the retail podcast. So today it's all things retail. You're very welcome, Louise.

Louise Lally:

Thanks a million. Thank you so much for having me, Louise. I love what you do with social media, so it's just as interesting talking to you.

Louise McDonnell:

Thank you. Thank you too, Louise. Yes. So do you want to maybe give us a little bit of an insightt into your journey?

Louise Lally:

Yeah, so I suppose where do I get my experience from or my kudos from? I suppose I've been in the retail space for 15 years. I've been in various roles across retail and I would have been very much involved in the day to day operational run of stores. Then I suppose I kind of progressed into more training and learning and development function, HR function as I progressed. I would've been involved in a lot of store openings a lot of time buying decisions store logistics, store refits and I would've worked a lot of senior leaders within the leadership space. So I suppose from working in different from corporate retail to your. Franchise retail to your family run retail. It gave me a great understanding of how these differentiations there from the different sizes of companies. And I always thought that one could learn from the other. So I used to see family run businesses and then I'd see large corporates, the likes of next, the likes of giant retailers. And I always thought that the smaller retailers don't serve us really well. And they're quite nimble. They can make changes really quickly. Whereas when we go to the corporate retail, there's very much layers there. It's very intricate there's learnings on both sides. So where the corporate is really good operationally and they're very good on productivities are very good on automation. Whereas we see the smaller retailers, maybe aren't that quick off the mark with those areas. It was something that always interested me that we could always take one from the other. So that's kind of where the thinking of going into more of a consulting piece came from. Because when I worked with different retailers, I would go and say, I used to work for Next and this is how they done this process. So I would then incorporate the learnings that I've taken from those different bigger retailers and how do we make them fit now in a franchise, and there could be maybe five or six franchise sites, but how do we make that process or that SOP really work well for the business in order to retain teams, in order to have it run More efficiently, more effectively. So I was doing that through the last, you could say, five, six years in retail. And I specialized then in people more. So, so I kind of went down the route of. We could get the best tech in the world and put it in a business. We could have self checkouts. We could have all of these things that are, we're seeing a lot more of now. But if we don't get buy in of our people that are actually the driving force behind it on the grind. We really can't really say that we're efficiently and running it as best as we can. So my pieces is that if we get the people, right, the teams, right, and everything else would fit really well into play for investing in stores properly. And we're putting the right tech in place and all of these supports only work well if you have the right people in the right place, the right time. So a lot of what I do is I work with retailers that are maybe looking to scale from 2 or 3 stores to maybe 5 or 6 and I look at well, what does the L& D function look like in your business? How do you make it work better for you? There's a big issue at retention. If you go on to, indeed or any of those jobs. So I've studied on a post recently, Louise, where there is in the region about 80, 000 roles open in retail currently. So the big challenge here is that how do we make retail? I think we touched on this before we started recording. How do we make it a career of choice? How do we make it more appealing to people? And I think you touched about social media. And I think that's a really interesting one.

Louise McDonnell:

Okay. So, let's just take a step or two back for a moment. So just in terms of like digital marketing, social media, is it killing high street retail? Like, you know, you go onto Instagram now, like I can think of at least three purchases I've made this summer. Where something popped up on my newsfeed and I went, Oh, hang on. I need this in a hurry. Cause I'm always buying something at the last minute and I check and see where's this store located? And in three instances, I says, Oh, they're UK. I'll have it within a week. And they didn't come from UK. They come from the other side of the world. Can't return them. one hasn't arrived yet. So, you know, shame, you know, it's a learning for me, but like that must be having a huge impact on high street stores. So how is social affecting, you know, retail?

Louise Lally:

Yeah, and I think there's the media has a big has a big factor to play in a lot of this and Louise and what is being portrayed out there at the moment. And I have these, I would say, quite heated debates with a lot of people and a lot of media people a lot of newspaper people I write sometimes for the business post, because I would challenge that a little bit. It's like we've different customer segmentations. Okay, and you can come up against us in marketing. I would look at the shopper journey when I do customer service training. we're not saying that this customer segmentation is only ever going to buy online. Most of us will do our research. We'll be looking at it online. Not everyone purchases online. So they're is definitely a demand there for bricks and mortar retailer. And one retailer that's really standing out that I worked with in the past is Rituals. And they have opened an additional, they'll be opening 200 plus more stores and towards the end of this year, their target was, I think, about 500, 400 or 500. So we have to look at why is some retailers really putting a lot of money behind opening stores, physical stores, and they're valued about a billion euro on the stock market at the moment. And then we're also saying in the same sentence. Well, social media is actually taking all the money away. I don't think we're working in separate entities. I think they're one of the same, and I think they work really well together. And there's a retailer here in Galway. And I'm going to give a shout out because they're one retailer that I see their social media and their in store marries really well together. And you get a very similar. Personalized experience and that's Harper, I don't know if you've ever heard of Harper clothing. Okay, so the clothing store in Galway, very near to where I live Louise, and if you go on to their social media, they have about 50, 000 followers on Insta. Now, You could say, well, it's all, no, it's not. The Insta is nearly that window of a retailer now. So years ago, we would have windows where people would, oh my God, you dress the mannequins. Now with digital screens, you retail media, which is taking over. But if we look at that, what I say to retailers now is instead of your store window, So invest heavily on your social media presence because that is your first touch point with your customer. So what is that first impression looking like? And if we look at the next phase and how easy is it for them to use that as a shopping tool? Now we'll bring them into the store. So what you'll find. Your first interaction with a brand, if it's an Irish brand, maybe it's not really far away, like you get the example of there, might be on social media, but the second part of that interaction could be in a store. And that's what you see with that other retailer I'm talking about, Harper, that they will find them on Instagram. But very often might be a month or two or three months down the line, they'll actually come in and visit the store. And what you want is there, you want a seamless shopping experience. So it's really important to the retailer is, if I'm coming from Sligo, Dublin, wherever, and I'm coming into this boutique in Galway, will the stock that says it's on hand be actually on hand in the store? And will I be disappointed when I get there? Because it's different to what it says is online, or will the two marry up? Now we have a nice offering because the two will hopefully marry up. Now we're looking for that really seamless experience with our stock. We're also looking at it from a service piece. So do I get that? I can see it's really personable on the Insta page. Am I seeing that then when I go in as a consumer into the store? Is there someone available to help me? Now we've gotten a really good 360 perspective of that shopper experience. And I think that's what needs to be really, really important. If we have this great social media presence, really engaging, really interactive, and then we go into a store and it's the polar opposite. there's a big disjointment there. I think.

Louise McDonnell:

I think you're totally right and it's something like I know that you specialize in is like that whole area of staff training and you've mentioned a few times there, the customer experience. I mean, I think for me, for any retailer that's going to differentiate themselves from, you know, whatever's showing up in your newsfeed is yeah, that experience that is the same on this, on your Instagram or your TikTok. And delivers an experience and even delivers, you know, and after and after sales experiences. I know this is slightly different, a slightly different example now, but I was talking to a guy recently who said that he had gone to a new restaurant and it was in a neighboring town. It wasn't in his town and he went to there because I think that obviously service is what. It's going to differentiate the good companies that excel from the companies that don't. But I thought this was an amazing example. He went to the restaurant on a Saturday night. He had a really nice experience, nice food, and he got a phone call from the manager on the Monday. Wow. How was your experience? And he was blown away and he said, I'm telling everyone, I'm telling everyone I meet about this experience. And I was like, yes, but that's delighting the customer. You know, that is exceeding expectations, delighting the customer and giving them such a, such a great experience that, you know, they'll become loyal, literally loyal and advocates.

Louise Lally:

I think that's really important. And I think Louise, sometimes we think it's a really grand gestures, but it's just the. Every day interaction piece that makes it, if I go back many years ago, I worked at a retailer and there was like four different departments in a pottery, a jewelry, a clothing an art, there was like arts, like pictures or whatever. And The lady that worked in the clothing and these are high end luxury designer brands and you're looking at the average sale will be about 120 euro per piece. So quite high end. And what she used to have near her till, and it was really simple, like if we could really bring it back to basics, right? Because people go CRM, like it's great for the bigger, no, no, like let's just bring it back to basic. She had a book, And on that book, she had the phone numbers of some of her regular customers and beside it, she had events that they had gone to and they previously bought from her, right. So what she did, very smart lady, we used to get so many drops from different suppliers, different designers. And I was there with them one day, I said, Oh, we've gotten this, you know, whatever designer it was, luxury designer, new drop came in for the season. She got her book out, and this is really proactive selling. And she started ringing a few of those clients that she had previously. And she said to them, How did the communion go? How did all of that go? We've gotten in your favorite color. There's a new collection just landed. And, The conversion rate she got off making those calls was phenomenal because no other boutique would actually ring and say, Louise, I know you really like the color blue. I actually have gotten in a couple of blue tops. I think will really match those other ones that you have at home. So now you can mix and match your wardrobe pop in and have a look. We'll see if we can find something your size. So I just think like stuff like that. Um, And I think what's happened days is that. If I look 2019, we, there was a big buzz in the retail space around experiential retail. So we seen the emergence of a lot of these stores where you went in and you, you touched the product and, you know, you made the soap and all of these amazing stores and then COVID hit and we were told we couldn't get too near to people. And then we were told we had to distance. We had to close fitting rooms. We, we pulled away from the customer and what's happened is the knock on behavioral impact from people in that sector is we've now gone so far away from the customer and the touch and the feel and all of that. That now we're realizing it's really impacted the business negatively. And we need to get back into that headspace of reconnecting with the customer in a meaningful way that makes them feel like they're part of something. They're not just coming in because a lot of the interactions I see, Louise, and I would do mystery shops for some companies, Would be, I would say that it was a transactional interaction. Mm-Hmm. And when I say transactional, I was in retail for years, is I'm coming, I'm getting this product. You're telling me the bare minimum, you're processing it through the till. It's so transactional. Why is that been a self checkout process? Okay.

Louise McDonnell:

And you know what, that drives me absolutely crazy, you know, you go into a shop and it is just transactional and they don't even fold whatever you're buying and they just, and they're like, can I, can I have it? Because I don't want it to be increased by the time I get home. Okay, so you're into training Louise. Yeah. So for anybody listening here, whether you're in retail and like you can, it's beyond retail as well. In order to create that customer experience, where do they have to start? What's the starting point?

Louise Lally:

The starting point for me is seeing where you're at at the moment. So where I would go in and we would do a needs analysis. So we would go, let's look at what it's looking like right now. What does that interaction look like? Who are the people involved in those touch points? Where is the first impression? Where is that first interaction? What does it look like? what are the challenges those people are having around that? So it'll be very different in a store to maybe a call center. You know, so what, what does that look like for that person to a hotel? Maybe it's front service. Maybe it's somebody in a hotel. You know, doing the rooms, like, what does that look like for those in the particular role? Okay. And I'm all about the front face and customer role and the backend, cause they all play a part in that process. So I, when we do an analysis around that, and I. Basically documented out just like any process we documented out and then we go, right, how can we make this even better? How do we impact that? We have a really nice brainstorming session where the team get involved in that. We start talking about what does it mean to you to work here? What would it mean for you to actually come back here as a customer? What can you deliver that you're not delivering right now? What does that look like to you and to the customer coming in the door? So we nearly do a map of what that journey is. We then look at how now do we benchmark the framework around that whereby the team feel they're driving towards something because I think a lot of the time you hear people say, you know, I hear a lot of retailers saying customer service is really important and we talk about it the interview and then we come in and we say it. And then I say, okay, so other than us Paying lip service to it. Okay, which is what it is a lot of the time. how is that demonstrated from a behavioral and an action piece when we're actually interacting with the consumer? And that's where people pause and they go quiet. Okay, so can you name two occasions in the last week where you can point out where that behavior has been demonstrated by one of your team in a meaningful way that is different from the retailer down the road selling similar product? And if they can't give me that example, if they can't tell me that they coach someone either positive or negative around one of those interactions, I know very quickly that we're not driving it in the business because either you're talking about it and it's a focus and it's been spoken about every day, every week, or it's not. And what ends up happening is, is, Retailers are, they're doing orders, they're doing deliveries, they're doing this, that, and the other. And they become so task focused that they forget that someone has come in the door. And that's usually what ends up happening. But I say to the retail leaders, well, how are your leaders actually driving the team to focus on that? So we look at morning briefings where every morning you call out one of your team members, we catch them doing the right thing. Okay. So that's really, you know, that's positive psychology. We really tap into that and we go, Well done to Louise. You know, I seen you helping someone out to their car with their shopping yesterday. You're a champion owning the customer. Okay. So that could be a value that we live in our wall, but we're actually demonstrating it in our behaviors. Okay. So a lot of the companies I would have worked with the likes of Woody's and stuff like that. We would have said the values are here guys, but we would call someone out every single day in that morning huddle morning briefing would have for the team where we would say, You're really driving that value because I've seen you demonstrate it in X, Y, and Z yesterday. So by always bringing that into a conversational piece and, and demonstrating that by an observable behavior and action we're really now getting to the crux of it. Okay. And without having those types of conversations, are we actually moving in the right direction? I would say no. So that's something that I really would work on with, with a lot of leadership teams is around that. What are the conversations happening? Are we firefighting? Are we kind of going, geez, something has happened? So now we have to give good customer service'cause we've messed up. That's not customer service. That's firefighting. It's a big, big difference. And I think they know what it is. A lot of them don't know how to actually implement it. Louise, that's a problem. And like anything we can't expect people in the business to implement something that we really don't have a framework around in order to benchmark it. And we're really not giving them constructive feedback around that. Like, my son is 17, right? He's going to be going into the workplace working on shop floors very soon. I would want him to be given feedback around these things. We can't expect people to come with these skill sets and as retailers, I think the norm was we're gonna put them into retail. It's an unskilled workforce, and they're just gonna make it up as they go along, or they're gonna figure it out. Make all these mistakes.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah. Yeah. Think and like in so many, like it's the same in hospitality, you know? Yeah. even like waiting, how to clear a table, how to set a table, actually, I think training is such a basic, you know, thing that can be offered and it can really change the experience that your customers have. And you're talking about staff retention, also changes the experience for the employee. So, yeah. You know, that's something that you're passionate about as well.

Louise Lally:

It is. It's, it's big on my agenda because I hear so many people talk about staff retention. It's a big issue at the moment. And I work with a lot of retail recruitment agencies as well, who I would speak to quite regularly because they're in that market. They're seeing the issues at first hand, but a lot of that is around and. And I suppose the way I explain it to the retailers is if you bring me in and I'm learning by making a mistake, what you're actually creating is I'm now afraid to innovate or make changes or do things differently to make the business better because I have learned by making mistakes, which now I'm afraid I'm risk adverse. So you're actually creating a risk adverse culture by doing that and that doesn't support the business to where it needs to go. Also, by you actually working with that person, the first 90 days is crucial to anyone new starting in a business. I would really say the first 30 days is so important. If you bring in anyone into a business, the first 30 days, painting that picture of what the expectation is of them in that role, it's so important. What you want to see what good looks like and really explaining that it's super duper clear what your expectations are of them in that role and what good performance looks like. And it gives them a sense of security. It also makes them comfortable to go. I know what Louise expects from me when I go into the business. I know she prioritizes customers. Tasks are second. I know that this is really important that we get this right. So if we're being really super clear, we're giving them the tools in order to do it, we're understanding that maybe their skill set is more people or maybe it's more operational based. Now we're setting them up for success. And that's what that really good onboarding process is. I can look back in my 15 years and hand on her to say that the times I didn't do proper inductions was when I actually had poor performance within my own immediate team. I really do put that down to me and I'll actually give them the time, the attention they needed in order to set them up for success in their roles. Because they were guessing a lot of the time and they were guessing by messing up. And because nobody actually sat down with them and said, this is what I need you to do. This is kind of what you're going to be doing next. So I think from a retention piece and from a growth piece and from succession planning, I could, I've hired people in the past. And I said, Jesus, they'd be brilliant front of house. And after about a week or two of me observing them, I'm going, they're not good front of house. They're not built for it, but they're really, really good with detailed tasks. So they're really good on my back end, the operational stuff, the stockroom, the deliveries. So, I moved them into a different area and they, they excelled in that area. So, I think it's really important that we establish that you might hire someone for one role and they mightn't be the right fit, but how do you find another role? Maybe they'll excel in another area of the business. You don't get that first hand knowledge though, by not being on that journey with them and supporting them along the way and observing what you're seeing with them. So, I think it's really important from a retention and succession planning piece that We're, we're bringing people into the business. Okay, these are the future leaders of my business. You know, am I really setting them up in the right way? Am I giving them the time they, they need in which to grow the business with me? Because it doesn't matter if they're on a 20 hour contract, a 40 hour contract. It doesn't matter what level they are in the business. They are actually driving the business for you. And the more you know, front of house they are, and it might be a lower part of the business that you're like, Oh yeah. They are the brand in the company. I used to say to people, if you go into a Next or Woody's any of those retailers and you meet me on the shop floor and I give you amazing service, I am Woody's absolutely Woody's, absolutely. So I am the brand and it's the same if I give a really poor experience. You will attribute that to the brand that might be the brand ethos that might be everyone working in the company, but I am the company. The person serving you is the company. So by not investing in that person, you're not investing in the company in the brand and you're damaging the brand by not looking at those key areas.

Louise McDonnell:

I remember once many, many moons ago, many years ago I was CEO of Ballina Chamber and we were doing like customer service awards and I always paid somebody from outside the county to come and do the adjudication. And I don't think anyone ever believed me that I did, because everybody always thought it was me. And I was like, absolutely. I would not take that on. So I remember we had done up the criteria of, you know, how, you know, how it was finalists. And then we were having a mystery shopper and we shared them. So this is the, this is the criteria that we're going to be judging you on. So anyhow we announced the finalists. So, so we had, everybody got a mystery shop and we announced the last, it was down to the last three in whatever particular category. And I remember I got a phone call from the business owner and like, they were raging, like they, they were like giving out stink to me. And I said, hang on a second. Cause they hadn't made the final. And I said, hang on, I'll just pull out your mystery shop reform. And I'm like, I didn't do it. And and then I just read, you know, and they said, well, the mystery shop are called on a Saturday at this time. And, you know, this is what happened when they had the interaction with the person behind the counter. And they were like, yeah, that was one of our students. So I was like, that's the, we're after invest in 40 and doing up the place. And I said, but like, You were marked on the experience that the person had speaking to the person behind the counter. It didn't matter if it was the student or the business owner. It has to be, you know, a good experience for everyone. So anyhow, I, I always remember that. So come here, Louise. What trends do you see emerging over the next while with digital social retail?

Louise Lally:

Yeah. So I think digital there's a huge push at the moment. I was in Barcelona at a few conferences the last while there's a huge focus on retail media. There's a huge focus on marrying the customer experience in store with a digital experience, which I think was always one, but now we're really looking at, I suppose Brands advertising brands interacting through these digital screens and they're now being used in a lot of windows So for promotions and stuff like that, you're probably going to see less mannequins and windows more digital screens More immersive. Yeah, there is a lot around at the moment, AI technology in the customer experiences. I was was in New York there and in January, it was really interesting. There was ai technology tool being used in the fitting rooms, which I thought was fantastic. So you would go into the fitting room, you had a mirror, and you would get the different outfits that were available in the store on the shop floor. So all these skews would be on it. And I would see which outfits I would press the outfit and the size. It would go into a radio to the sales advisor who'd bring the clothes down to me in the fitting room.

Louise McDonnell:

Oh my God, that's so cool.

Louise Lally:

It was such cool technology. I did a video with him, a really interesting guy. It was really, really cool. So there is a lot of really cool things I think happening in retail from, you know holograms talking to you in stores. So there was one that had digital shop floor assistant, and I'd done a video on LinkedIn. It was really cool. And it was a DIY store. And he appears on a retail media screen. So you walk in, you can imagine DIY is really big, and you say to him I want to get a piece of wood this size. It's fur. And he tells you where the wood is located in the store, what aisle to find it on. And it, it's just so interesting. It's bringing it to another level. What we're seeing is those interactive tools that we have on our phone. We're seeing them be brought to life in the customer journey in the store, which I think is really, really interesting. Because QR codes, I was, QR codes been around for 30 years. I never knew that they've been around for ages, but we're just, we're slow to pick up the mark, I think in certain markets, but it's just so interesting how that kind of retail attainment is kind of being brought to life in a lot of these stores through their displays. And it was a really cool one. Actually, I'm going to take this other one. Cause you're going to love this. I was in Barcelona and they had a load of wine bottles on a shelf. And when you, there's a screen behind them and you lift up the wine bottle and you put it down on this circle and it tells you what food to eat with the bottle of wine and where it came from. What, what dinner would be lovely with it. What, what cheese you could have with it. And then it had the cheese underneath with the crackers to match it and it was just so cool. We'd done a video on it there, we'd a videographer over with as a barona, but it like really cool stuff that you were just like, your mouth was open. You were like, oh my God, this is super duper cool

Louise McDonnell:

All of those things, like they're really, really so clever because they're using technology to solve real problems like you're in, you've tried on five outfits, you've put on the dress, you're going, sugar, I should have bought that. And I wish I could try that on at a size up or a size down, but then have to go get dressed, go out, find it, bring it back, get undressed, put it on again. Yeah. First thing, solving that problem. Second thing, I could totally see that DIY, you know, when you go and you stand at the door or chemist or another one, I stand at the chemist and I'm like, Oh, please somebody just tell me where, where I need to go and just get the stuff and get out of here quickly. And then the wine, of course, like that's just upselling, cross selling. Well, so clever. So technology is great. I just love it.

Louise Lally:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. I think, and it works. It works for retailers. I think, you know, a lot of people are saying, Oh, and people are in their jobs. And I'm like, not really. There will always be the need for a person as part of that process. And I think they work together. It's like anything.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah. The jobs are changing.

Louise Lally:

That's it. 100%. It's evolving. Yeah. Yeah.

Louise McDonnell:

Well, Louise, thank you so much for all your expertise. I've really enjoyed our conversation and I really look forward to checking out all those AI tools when we see them. So mannequins are a thing of the past. If you're making mannequins, you need to diversify. And so will we literally go up to like shop windows and be able to interact from outside the store as well?

Louise Lally:

Yeah, yeah, you'll see that coming down the line. Yeah. Yeah, you'll see the holograms change as you interact with them, which is really cool. Really, really cool. Yeah.

Louise McDonnell:

Okay. Look, thanks so much. If people want to find you, where would they find you Louise?

Louise Lally:

LinkedIn is where I live. I think anyone that knows me, Louise Lally, I'm on LinkedIn. Um, My social is Louise Lally Training Academy and then I have a website, Louise Lally Training Academy. So if you type that in, I'll appear on the Google.

Louise McDonnell:

And we'll have, we'll have all your links as well in the show notes.

Louise Lally:

Thank you. Thanks so much, Louise. Thank you. Thanks a million.