The Social Media Takeaway - Louise McDonnell

Content Creation Secrets with Global Influencer Charlene Flanagan

• Louise McDonnell • Season 1 • Episode 29

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In this week’s episode of the Social Media Takeaway, I have the pleasure of speaking with Charlene Flanagan, a global influencer and the visionary co-founder of Ella and Joe. In this episode, we'll uncover the strategies behind effective content creation and the pivotal role of user-generated content (UGC). Charlene will share her insights on building impactful influencer relationships and how these elements have contributed to her brand's international success. Tune in as we dive deep into the secrets of content that connects and converts. 

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Louise McDonnell:

Welcome to the Social Media Takeaway. I'm your host, Louise McDonnell. And this is the show where we talk All things social media specifically how you can use social media to grow your business. If you like the show, be sure to subscribe. And if you know of anyone who'd enjoyed this episode or any other episodes, why don't you share the show with them and tell them all about it. so Today I'm delighted to welcome an old friend of mine, Charlene Flanagan here to the show. So Charlene is the co founder and visionary behind Ireland's fastest growing skincare brand, Ella and Joe. With over a decade of experience as a beauty expert, Charlene is no stranger to your screens appearing on Irish TV, media, and numerous social media channels. She has established a stellar reputation in the beauty industry. You're very welcome to the show.

Charlene Flanagan:

Thank you so much. I feel like this is such a gorgeous full circle moment for us, Louise. I know. I'm going to start crying soon. I know. I love the how still after all this time, like, you know, we still have such a lovely relationship, you know, it's absolutely gorgeous. So for anybody maybe listening and wondering what are these two on about? Back in the heyday when I was just Fresh out of college, myself and Louise I was an employee of Louise's company at the time called 2Market. That was my first dip in my toe into digital marketing. A lot of people actually now, when I tell them what my background is, they were like, you were in digital marketing. I was like, yeah. And they were like, wow.

Louise McDonnell:

It was actually, it was before you finished college, wasn't it? You came to me for your work placement.

Charlene Flanagan:

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was in, yeah, third year actually.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah, third year in college.

Charlene Flanagan:

You were the reason why I continued with marketing. I was going to go down HR, like like, why? And you were the reason, like, digital marketing, like, wasn't what it is now. Like, SEO, remember I was going into my lecturer correcting him, saying, no, you're wrong. Like, that's not what SEO is. People haven't heard of SEO. Facebook was just relatively new coming on the scene. And so we, we started that journey. Yeah, really, really early on. And that was my first dip in the toe with digital marketing. But it was thanks to you that I learned so much about marketing. And I still, to this day, always refer back to the same I suppose the same quote and the same ethos that you had back in the day, you know, I still always remember some of the little things, you know, that how I was taught and I still, still use them to this day. Yeah, so it's amazing.

Louise McDonnell:

For the record, I remember the day that you arrived on the doorstep and I opened up the door and I went, Oh, you're the image of your mother because I knew your mom and actually you're not, you're more like your dad, but I just, when I opened it, I said, Oh, you're the image of your mother. And I think I had one of the twins on my, on my hip. I said, come in, come in. And yeah. And I remember when you were just fantastic. She was there in work placement. And I remember going, I have to give this girl a job. I have to figure out the company to give you a job. You were fantastic. And we had wonderful times together and working and pontificating and coming up with harebrained ideas. But anyhow, it stood to both of us, I think. So, yeah, I always remember fondly our time together. Yeah, well,

Charlene Flanagan:

I do, I do put a lot of what you taught me and what I learned on the job. throughout my journey, you know, with to market at the time down to like, I wouldn't have achieved what I was able to do in the early days of even Ella and Joe, you know, like I was able to take so many skillsets from what I learned, you know, through Ellen Joe and obviously through my other brand and business, Charlene Flanagan Makeup when I was a makeup artist, you know, it was all very much like learning along the way. So it's all stepping stones and it's just incredible to see and watch your journey and how you've evolved because you're an absolute rock star and you deserve all the success. And I just love, I love watching what you're doing as well. It's amazing.

Louise McDonnell:

Thanks, Charlene. I remember the day Charlene arrived into me and she said to me, she was going off to Galway to do a makeup course. And I was like, why are you doing that? And then from there, you started off your own Facebook. It was only Facebook at the time, your own Facebook page. And I remember the first video that you did that went viral. And the two of us were sitting here watching, you were going, how many thousand people have watched it in Australia?

Charlene Flanagan:

I know. I think at the time I had 5, 000 followers on Facebook at the time. And that day, I think the reach of that video reached something like 25 or 30, 000 people. And we were, I think we were in Galway or something where we are. We were somewhere off site. Anyway, we weren't in the office and like that we were, we were refreshing and we were watching and we couldn't believe how, but I actually can't even remember. What the video was, but

Louise McDonnell:

I think I remember because I had it on one of my slides for years when I was training, it was something to do with a makeup palette. And I remember what happened was you did it. And then the following morning it had, you had loads of views and they were views that were not obviously in Ireland because they were in a different time zone. And I also remember you getting grief of some of the artists, they were like, why are you telling people how to use these things? Like, you know?

Charlene Flanagan:

Yeah. Yeah, and that's what I suppose built my platform because I really felt when I started the journey and just even for context, that was probably about 13 years ago, I would imagine. And there was a real gatekeeping in the makeup artist, you know, industry. And if I reached out to a well known makeup artist and asked her, you know, what foundation would you recommend for those that have dry skin? It was like Radio Silence, Tumbleweed, and how I built the platform because initially when I did the course. I hadn't actually intended on working in the industry, and I suppose Facebook was so interesting to me, I actually loved to educate people as opposed to actually physically doing their makeup. And that was what was commonly coming through, you know, what concealer can I buy for dark circles? And like that, I felt like there was a real gatekeeping Scenario that was going on and I was like absolutely not, you know, I feel like there is a woman out there Who is forgotten about she's not the young ones and you know Like she's not the older demographic with the lancome and the clarence and all the lovely but the woman there who's super busy who can't Book in for a makeup appointment because she's got young kids and you know, if it's a decision between hair and makeup, she normally went for hair back in the day. And I, at the time was like, look, how, how about I just teach and educate these women, you know, on what to do. And because we're from a more rural part of Ireland, we don't have access to Brown Thomas department stores. It's come a long way since then, but at the time you only had your pharmacy brands and you know, everybody else. was online on YouTube in America and the UK and even sometimes Ireland and Dublin. It was all these really prestige brands, you know, that we couldn't get access to. So I used to go around, you know, to the local pharmacies on a very local basis. And I would find out what brands are there. It was like Rimmel and L'Oreal at the time. I would buy those products and essentially learn kind of the ins and outs of them. And then I would put that on my platform and I would teach people about, you know, how to shade match what eyeshadow palette to wear for certain eye colors, to make them pop lipstick finishes, you know, all this kind of stuff. And that was kind of how I grew the business. And then on from there, my freelance journey started then, because on top of people Can I just bring My makeup bag to you and can you just go through like what I can do? What brush do I use for this, et cetera, et cetera. It then evolved into actually physically doing makeup on people. And I loved both. And I was really lucky that I was able to build a career for nearly nearly 10 years off of that. So, yeah, it's so interesting. Now, when I love these opportunities where I actually get a chance to look back and reflect, because it's lovely to actually see. The, you know, the journey and how it's come about.

Louise McDonnell:

I'm still like, even in my coaching academy, like my group coaching calls, I'm still teaching people about, you know, position yourself as an expert. Sometimes it's the, it's the littlest piece of advice. The simplest thing that you think, Oh, sure. Everybody knows that, that your ideal customer will, Absolutely cling on to and it will, and you know, the way it works is, and the same happened for you is that, yeah, you can educate people, you know, but at the end of the day, if they want to use somebody then to provide those services, they're more likely to come to the person that has educated them and helped them and that they know, like, and trust. So you did a great job. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you did, you did. And you're, and what you also did well, Charlene was that you were consistent. Like you didn't stop. You know, and you've continued and continued to build your brand. So fast forward. So tell us for anyone who doesn't know the wonderful brand Ella and Joe tell us about that story.

Charlene Flanagan:

Yeah. So six years ago, myself and my co founder, Niamh Ryan, she is a skin therapist, owns a, Skin Clinic in Ballina, County Mayo. Myself and herself decided to launch this brand with a one product a one product business. And it was the Squeaky Clean Brush Cleanser. And I suppose the ethos behind the Squeaky Clean was that there's a connection between blemished skin, congested prone skin, and dirty makeup brushes. And that there's more bacteria on a dirty makeup brush than there is on a toilet seat. And people were consistently coming in to need skin care. skin clinic asking about blemishes and breakouts, buying all the creams and the facials and spending loads and loads of money. And then every day, essentially putting a dirty makeup brush back onto their skin again. And there was a gap in the market for a product that was really easy to use. It was fast. It wasn't standing over the sink with a soap and having to wait the long drying times, you know for, to wait for them to dry. to dry. So essentially we went into business together 60 years ago to launch this product and squeaky clean brush cleanser. And what originally started out that was just going to be a B2C so direct to consumer business where we were just going to sell on our website online quickly evolved into Una O'Hagan from Mahers Pharmacy, one of the leading pharmacies in Ireland. I knew her through obviously my networking and my makeup artistry career. She rang me and was like, I don't know what this product is that you're launching, but she's a huge advocate in support of Irish brands, especially Irish female owned brands. And she said, I want whatever it is. And we were like we're not really planning to go into wholesale because like the, the minimum order quantities that we'd ordered at the time, we were like, Oh God, like how many do you want, et cetera, et cetera. And we just took a risk on it. And we were like, okay, fine. Let's just see how this goes. And I suppose Una is the influencers influencer, you know, she's like a lot of the pharmacies nationwide would look to what Myers pharmacy would take in. And I suppose then a comes from it. And I suppose we quickly realized I'm like, It's not to say that it was just like, look, like there's a lot of, there was a lot of behind the themes. Like, obviously I had built a reputation of, you know, probably nearly six years at this stage. You know, like I had built a platform across Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat at the time, and I had built up this, you know, business essentially as a makeup artist, somebody that was a beauty expert that they could trust. So the business really took off and we were like, wow, you know, oh my God, this is absolutely amazing. And. Then I suppose myself and me just naturally were educators, were innovators. And we then started thinking about, right, okay, what could potentially the next line of product be? And for the first four years we launched, we were really slow. You know, we, we were still working in our full time jobs and this was essentially a sideline. We were like, look, let's just see where this goes. Really enjoying it, really enjoying the startup phase and that creative piece. And so then the next product after that ended up being one of our still top best selling products, which is our three in one hyaluronic skin mist. It's called Botox in a Bottle. Everybody absolutely loves it. And from there, we essentially planned them. We started realizing, yeah, absolutely, there is a demographic or a customer out there of women who Have been forgotten about, you know, in the skincare industry, we felt that it had gone very clinical, very ingredients led, you know, women were overwhelmed with what they should be using, what they shouldn't be using. How many steps do I need to do and on what days do I need to use that? So we were like, wow, you know, there's a woman there, there says, number one, it's forgotten about in terms of the industry, but she also has forgotten about herself. She puts herself at the bottom of her to do list because she's busy. She's got a family or people to take care of. And we were like, right. Okay. Let's try and see, can we bring, bring together a brand that incorporates. self care into skincare and let's make this process enjoyable. So we all know that we need to do our skincare in the morning and in the evening, but instead of it becoming like a have to do, it was more like a wants to do because It gives you like a moment of joy, like a moment to pause like in your morning when you're putting on your serum or your SPF that it's not stinky because it's a stinky SPF, you know, something really enjoyable that you know is going to set you up for the day. And likewise in the evening time that ritual of that wind down, you know, just taking a pause, this might be the only moment that she gets for herself in a day. And that's where the first still best selling product of the range came from was melt the day away cleansing balm. And it's like a spa in a jar. Everybody knows it, but that's our hero product. That's the icon of the range. And melt the day away came along. And it's fab. I love it. It is fab. I still love it to this day. And I suppose, yeah, the customer is, Always, always, always at the forefront, we could absolutely have launched a brand that has four different serums, three different day creams, you know, but we were like, absolutely not that customer is, you know, who we're creating products for, it needs to be enjoyable, it needs to give her the results that she wants as well. And I think, I think we've done a really, really good job. And I, yeah, it's just been an amazing journey to date. We've had incredible, incredible successes, especially in the last probably two years. We won Irish brand of the year last year and thanks to image media. That was actually our very first brand recognized award. We'd won product awards in Ireland, but we'd never actually won an Ella and Joe award. So that was like the creme de la creme for us. We were like, well, like that's just the best one that we could have ever gotten. And then just there three weeks ago it's absolutely incredible to even think just 18 months after launching into the UK. We won essentially the CEW awards is like the Oscars and the beauty industry. And it's the one that everybody is at, like you're sitting alongside Charlotte Tilbury and. Elements, you know, math, all the big players on a global stage. And we won the best new brand prestige in the UK. And like, it was just insane to think that, wow. Oh my God. In such a short span of time, because when you start talking to, I suppose the big players and you start talking to, you know, like the consultants and whatever they're like, Oh, you're still a baby brand as such. Cause we're only six years. And that's, that's okay. We recognize that, you know, but yeah, Yeah. It's just, it's been incredible. I have to say it's been really, really incredible, really enjoyable, and I'm really proud of us and what we've managed to do.

Louise McDonnell:

Well congratulations on all of your achievements. And I can tell you to anyone listening in here, it's down to hard work because this girl, that's one thing that always stood out for you, Charlene, you know, even when you were in college, you'd be like, no, no, I can take Friday. I'll take Fridays off and come and work for you. And we're like, are you not going to be out now? This girl works and you, you have a great work ethic. I'd say half your problem is you work too hard. So to get some time for yourself. So well done. It's an amazing success. And it's a great Irish story. And it's a great rural Irish story. Story and it's a great story about women entrepreneurs as well. So it has so many angles. It's, it's so good. So, okay, let's just take it back for a minute now to social media. So social media is a huge part of, of your marketing strategy. So for anyone tuning in here, who's, you know, looking to use social media for their own business, I'm going to ask you a few questions. First question is what advice, what advice do you give, you know, now in 2024?

Charlene Flanagan:

I would say go right back to basics. Know your why. What is your business why? Why are you doing this? Why have you offered these services? Why are you creating these products? And once you know the why, it's almost like the basis of everything that you do. And then second from that, know who your target customer is. You can't be everything to everybody. Otherwise, you'll just end up spinning off and you're trying to talk to one customer demographic. Try it. You can absolutely have various customer profiles, but you need to know who is that bullseye target customer that you're looking to target. target. And then the basis of your content is built basically around that. Like know the why, know who your customer is, and then just basically directly talk to them specifically. And I think a lot of brands, I definitely have noticed that over the years, we lose that then sometimes because you get so into the business, you're working in the business so much. And as we said earlier, Sometimes you forget that even the simplest little thing can actually be just that little goldmine in terms of reach or, you know getting that engagement that it is that you're looking for. So don't underestimate the power of the knowledge that you have and really just go back and sit down to basics and really just say, okay, What is my why and who is my customer and how do I need to speak to them? And, and then the next thing I would say is to have a strategy. And I know some people are allergic to that word. You know, it's like, Oh, I don't have time. And it's, it's either one or the other. You're either going to feel overwhelmed All of the time, or you're going to feel just a little bit overwhelmed for a short period of time. If you just sit down and honestly plan out a content calendar for yourself and try to create content that's almost evergreen, try to create that content that you can absolutely rehash out again, like once a quarter, or, you know, like. twice a year or whatever, that you're not having to sit down and record every single week or every single day, because that's when you start to become a little bit resentful and it becomes very overwhelming. And if you're somebody that has started out in a business, we all know we have to wear 40 different hats. We're the marketer. We're the finance person. We're HR. We're the whole lot. And the marketing obviously needs a huge amount of attention because at the end of the day, that's how you're going to generate revenue to your brand. So having a strategy is amazing. And I know your book and you know, I'm going to give you an absolute shameless plug here and say, your book is absolutely incredible because you've taken all the thinking and all of the hard work out of it for people. And that is the overwhelming part because If you are a business owner and you're maybe operating with a small team or maybe it is just you and you are wearing all the hats, like your background probably isn't in marketing. You just know that you have a really good service or a really good product, but maybe you're just not, you don't have a marketing background. So you don't know the first thing about recording content or how to talk or whatever. So yeah, that's definitely something I think strategy, maybe find a different word if you're allergic to the word strategy, you know, it's like, I don't know, find, find a word. A to do list.

Louise McDonnell:

A to do list in a certain structure.

Charlene Flanagan:

But like, absolutely, and that, that was a big progress thing for me, actually, Louise, was when I would have done business coaching, that some words genuinely triggered me, like some words genuinely made me go, oh, I'm I hate routine. I, you know, like, I don't like using words like that. So absolutely find a language or find something, you know that works for you. Do you know, that's going to allow you to see it in a really positive manner, because then you're more likely to show up and you're more likely to actually do it. So definitely sitting down and planning some sort of a strategy, know your industry, know, is there any like key dates, you know, what's coming up, you know, in your industry. And then like that, When you want to jump on AdHotly and you'll have loads of energy to be able to do it. Whereas if you get too stuck in the kind of day to day and happen to feel like you're uploading every day, it's not possible. You know, it is absolutely not possible to be on it every single day. You will come in one day and a manufacturer has decided to ghost you and you're on top of that. And then before you know it, three weeks have gone by and you've got no content. So the more you can kind of forward plan, I would definitely say try as much as you can. And if you can't Try and see if you can reach out to a company or a business or a freelancer that might be able to help you even for a small period of time just to get you over a hurdle. If you have a busy period coming up, you know, just try and reach out and ask for help, obviously, if it if it allows you to. That would be kind of in terms of like organic, you know, if you've got a very minimal budget, you know, and you're trying to just operate in the best possible way. Obviously, if you have got a little bit of budget there, or if you have got some room to maybe offer your product or services out there, there's amazing content creators out there that can actually create content for you. So we would call it UGC, am I right in saying that? User generated content? So it can actually be really expensive to ask an influencer or a content creator to post on their pages because essentially that's an advertising tool. However, you can actually ask them to create what's called UGC. So ask them just to record like a library or a bank of content for you. That you then take and you post onto your page. It's actually a much cheaper way of using content creators and influencers to actually get content for your pages. That's something that's quite relatively new in the last probably like 12, maybe 6 to 12 months. But it's a tool that we've been using in Ella and Joe and we found it to be really, really successful. And it really premiumizes your profile, you know, on TikTok or on Instagram. So just another alternative way. And like that, maybe if you don't have budget. Maybe like that content creators, especially the micro content creators and the micro influencers that are looking for that growth and an overly saturated market. Invite them in or send them some products. Obviously, if that allows you to and build a relationship. I think there's too much coldness, you know, where it's like, Oh, I'm just going to send a box and hope for the best. No, build a relationship. Build the network, you know, and really build on that communication and build that community of people. People will always go above and beyond for you if they really feel like they're valued. So if you are starting out in a business, you know, don't just cold call somebody out and be like, For the first time ever and be like, Hi Charlene I have this new product and I want to send it out to you. Maybe one, two times out of ten, you might get lucky. Most of the time you'll send a product out and that'll be it. As I said earlier, ghosted tumbleweed. Whereas if you start engaging with a person, really get to know them Which is obviously time consuming, but it's a nice cheap kind of budget friendly way to almost like build, build your profile and kind of build your content kind of around that. And then moving into obviously financial like targeted ads have been hugely successful for our brand, hugely, hugely successful. So absolutely. If you can do it yourself, by all means, I don't envy you if you do because it's an absolute minefield. I'm not going to lie. But like, or go and learn like how to do it. Obviously, if you can't afford, you know, to, to outsource it, or if you can't afford to do it, absolutely try to tick another thing off your list. It honestly, if you go to the right business or the right person that genuinely knows their craft, like all targeted advertising, it will pay back tenfold. Like it may seem like A lot in terms of an investment in the beginning, but if you've got the right relationship and you've got the right back and forward, it absolutely pays dividends, you know, it's, it's absolutely amazing. And they'd probably be like my top five off the top of my head. Louise, I'm trying to think if I forgotten anything

Louise McDonnell:

and you know what? Like you're just nearly following the framework that I would teach all the time in my coaching Academy, literally step one is what's your why. Step two is who's your customer. Step three then is all about optimization. So getting clear on your message and being clear on that message and refining that message and that message has to be persuasive and it has to speak to per somebody in their own words. Because I will say there's 86, 000 seconds in the day or something like that. 50, we're awake for 57, 000 seconds. we're on social media on average, 13, 000 seconds, but brands, we're in somebody's new seat for two seconds. So you've got to be speaking the language. You've got to get their attention and you can't do it if you haven't got those. The first three things that you'd spoke about there. So totally in agreement there content, huge, hugely important and paid ads as well. So like Facebook and Instagram ads are still really, really good value for money. So like shout out to our own business. we teach people how to do them. And TikTok ads are even better value for money at the moment.

Charlene Flanagan:

That's a little goldmine at the minute. Yeah, because it's a very unsaturated market at the moment.

Louise McDonnell:

Before everybody goes there. and there's a question I wanted to ask you as well, like in terms of social media. Do you see any change around organic reach at the moment?

Charlene Flanagan:

Probably. Yeah. Like I'm not in the insights as much as probably what I used to be, but yeah, definitely. I do feel like though there's a, there's an element of maybe. Going back in time and going back to basics a little bit as well. I feel like social media lost its way for a long time and it was becoming this very aesthetically pleasing platform. And then all of a sudden it went to this like algorithm and everybody was going mad about the algorithm and whatever. But actually, in fact, I think. Bringing it right back to basic people want to feel like they're valued and they're being spoken to. And that's a huge part of Ella and Joe is that we talk about our community a lot. And like, that's exactly what we would call our customers, our followers. It's all one big community. And like that, you want to feel like you're part of something. So like we are bringing it very much back to basics again, you know? Yeah, absolutely. While we were in the growth phase and it was all new products, new products, amazing things I mean, we very much would always remind the marketing team and the girls on the team. No, no, no, bring it right back to the customer again, bring it right back. You know, when we sort of feel like sometimes we're trying to be, you know, everything to everybody and trying to maybe keep up with the bigger global players and things like that to form an aesthetically pleasing brand, which is important as well. You know, especially when we're still in that scaling growth phase, but bringing it back to basics, I feel like, you know, using the tools that Instagram have, like, quizzes and questions and polls and which I'm talking in my industry now, like, you know, like which Pair of earrings would go with my outfit or like, you know what, like asking simple questions like yes or no answers, or red or blue answers. You know, really being quite specific, but being quite direct. I find people, as you said, they don't have a lot of time. However, if you capture them and you ask them to do something really simple, but if you ask somebody to go off and guess, you know, like, like, you know, like guess something or you know that they really have to think about, forget about the engagement is gonna be gone. So you do have to work a little bit harder, but I think's. Just bring it back to basics a little bit. I think, don't overcomplicate it. Just put a quiz up or put a poll up or put a question box up. And that can be the basis of content sometimes for two to three weeks, you know, and then people feel like they're really valued. So if you put a question box up and then you genuinely answer that question for people, I'm pretty sure, you know, when one person asks that if one person asks it, there's more than likely, you know, a dozen more that is probably thinking it, but just won't come forward and ask it as well. So I. Do you feel like in terms of organic reach you, you just always have to be kind of like, okay, let's just reevaluate this now again. But like that, as I said, we just always bring it right back to basics again. And myself and neither very much at the forefront of our brand as well. And I know that's not the case for everybody. Not everybody feels confident enough to get in front of a camera, and I absolutely appreciate that. That's one thing as well. In terms of like, I suppose, growth on social media, invest in a good camera and don't forget to wipe it every time you go to record something. Make sure that your content is like as nice as it possibly can be. You know, I'm sitting in front of a window here, best natural light, you know, like really nice. Aesthetic, almost background or blur it out, you know, if it's, if it's not great in the background or whatever, it doesn't have to be this big production and like invest in cheap little things like tripods on Amazon. You can get them for like 15 quid, but they just make your life that little bit easier. But yeah, in terms of organic content, weeds. still get great engagement, like we've built a community, you know, and people just love to feel like they're part of it. So answering people when they comment underneath your posts, like don't just leave them dormant, you know, that somebody writes, you know, if there's a new product and yes, absolutely. There might be on our page, like. 200, 300 comments to get through, but they're worth answering because then people will be more likely to, you know, answer something the next time when it's maybe not a new product, when it's something that you're looking for feedback on. So as much as you can try to bring the customer in, you know, and show them maybe some behind the scenes or like try to even feel like they're part of almost like your decision making processes, you know, whether or not you decide to go with what they've said or not, but as well for you, that's like Goal is marketing, you know, like you're getting your customers data and you're getting their information. So yeah our organic platform, I have to say, thank goodness is it's still going really, really strong. And not on every post, I think as well, something to really, you know, say to people is don't get too caught up on the insights and on the numbers learn from it absolutely you know if you're consistently not getting feedback or whatever then absolutely maybe you do need to take a look at like what it is that you're doing and can you do things differently but you know you could post something one day and you know then you post something on another day you know at the same time same place everything looks and feels the same and then you just don't get the engagement Don't worry about it. If it is really, really good content, then maybe like archive it, take it down and maybe repost it or something on another date or whatever. But don't get too hung up and don't sit into the negativity, you know, just be like, okay, right. Okay. That's grand, you know, and just keep being consistent, keep showing up because sometimes just at the point when you're about to kind of go, Like this, you know, I, I'm no good at this and you start berating yourself, it's actually usually kind of like the turning point and something will just happen usually out of that. So yeah.

Louise McDonnell:

I love all that. And actually, and I love the fact that you also said like, yeah, the organic, but do invest in paid ads and anyone listening here, if you're a small business, like you got to spend money to make money and I don't see your ad as a cost. It's an investment. So, you know, if you can pay, if you can pay and you get somebody to buy something from you. Yeah. Then your goal is to get them to continue to buy from you. So you get a repeat customer. Mm-Hmm.. I love the fact that you said that, because you know that that's reality nowadays. You know, if you want to reach more and more people, especially if you're starting out and you don't have a huge, huge community. But No, I absolutely love that. And I love the final thing that you said there about, It's like a snowball. I always say it's like a snowball. It's not what you do once. It's not what you do. You know, it's what you do continually time and time and time again. And I remember one day I was not so long ago, I was, I was walking down the street and somebody came up to me and they were like, I just wanted to tell you. I love your podcast. And I was like, Oh, and it's those moments to go. Okay. Yeah. Okay. This is good. You know, so yeah, it's work, you know, it is work. It is hard work, but you know, keep showing up, keep doing the work and you dig deep, dig deep, and you could be an award winning entrepreneur like, like Charlene. So Charlene, tell us last bits of advice. Where is it all going? What would last, any last tidbits?

Charlene Flanagan:

So look, it's global for Ella and Joe right now. So myself and Niamh, we have hired in director roles. So we've hired in a managing director and as an e commerce director, just starting with us now this year as well, so that myself and Niamh can really focus on the growth and the scaling of the brand, we're looking to basically try to copy and paste what we've done in Ireland, which is a huge success story. We've made amazing, amazing growth in the UK market in just a short 18 months. So we're looking to go further field. We're looking to the U S we're looking to the UAE. We're looking to Australia. So we're really looking to take this now and just try to grow this. And like, I suppose what we're trying to do is allow women in the skincare industry to be seen and to be heard. There's a forgotten woman there somewhere who puts herself at the bottom of her to do list. And we hope that Ella and Joe will just give her a moment of joy in her day. And yeah, just take basically what we've done and do that on a global scale. So I'm scared and excited for what's to come. It's nerve wracking, you know, because obviously it's, it's like starting a new business all over again when you enter into a new market, but I'm so confident in the products that we have developed. And obviously through the awards and through the recognition and things like that, that we've done you know, I'm pretty sure, hopefully that it's just going to, Go up from here, I'm hoping but like we wouldn't be who we are as well without our incredible team. Like our team are absolutely amazing. But at the end of the day, myself and Niamh are the engines of this brand, you know, and we still to this day love coming into work because we have a gorgeous team. Don't get me wrong, there are absolutely hurdles, you know, every day. We just take them in our stride. We're like, we're not brain surgeons here. Nobody's gonna die, you know, it's all good. So we have a really, really positive outlook on it all. I'm actually particularly really looking forward to actually slowing down a little bit for the summer. Summer is a time when we can kind of slow down a little bit because come September, that's Christmas, then it's Q4, it's ramping up again. So I'm really looking forward to some family time. And that's it. The lovely thing about working for yourself, whilst you've got a lot of hurdles and that to cross and there's a lot of sacrifices that you have to make, there's also a lot of good that comes with it as well and flexibility and freedom and stuff like that is really important and to both myself and Niamh and to anybody that's out there, just Keep going. Surround yourself with like minded people. So surround yourself with entrepreneurial people, positive, uplifting people. Reach out. There's absolutely networks of people out there that are more than happy to, you know, have a cup of coffee or have a zoom call with you. If you're feeling stuck, cause it's a really lonely road sometimes when you are self employed. Just reach out either. I'm sure myself, Louise, do you know what I mean? Anybody like we're all here. We've all, you know, started in the business. Just if you are feeling a little bit of a slump right now, it's not forever. Go and find somebody that you know is going to lift your spirits. And maybe might give you that one little piece of advice that might just rev you back up again and just keep going. Because honestly, what's on the other side is absolutely worth it. As long as you show up and just stay consistent and stay true to your values to yourself.

Louise McDonnell:

And what I would say in terms of skincare brands, I don't think there's any brand out there that has the two brand ambassadors like you and Niamh are for your brand. And I think that's a lot of what, what separates you from the other brands is that you are the face of the brand and, you're living the brand and, and skincare. Certainly it's, it's not, it's not holding you back in any shape or form. So I wish you every success. I look forward to welcoming you back in a, in a future episode to tell us about how you cracked the U S and every other territory in the world. So congratulations, Charlene. I'm so proud of you.

Charlene Flanagan:

Thank you, Louise. And I'm so proud of you too. So thank you so much for having me and keep going with the podcast because I'm really inspired by you. If you've had some incredible guests, just you keep going with it too. Cause it's really, really good.

Louise McDonnell:

Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.