The Social Media Takeaway - Louise McDonnell

Proven Sales Strategies: From Conversations to Conversions

• Louise McDonnell • Season 1 • Episode 40

Share episode

Sales can often feel daunting, especially when you're unsure how to start conversations or handle objections. But what if you could turn those challenges into opportunities and connect with clients on a deeper level? 

In this episode of the Social Media Takeaway, I’m excited to welcome Steve Donnellan, a seasoned trainer, sales coach, and the founder of Steve Donnellan Consulting and Soaring Sales Academy. With over 35 years of experience in sales and marketing, Steve brings a wealth of knowledge on how to overcome sales challenges. We dive into key strategies for understanding customer needs, crafting effective sales messages, and using the right techniques to connect on a deeper level. We also talk about how traditional sales techniques can be adapted to social media, where building connections and trust is just as important as in-person interactions. Whether you’re an experienced sales professional or new to the game, this episode is packed with insights and strategies to help you win more sales. 

More about Steve: 

Website
Linkedin
Instagram

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to my podcast because more like this is on the way!

If you'd like to book a call to see how I can support you head over to my website here. www.sellonsocialmedia.academy/hello

And please connect on social media and let me know what you thought of this episode!

LinkedIn
Instagram
Facebook
Facebook Group

Check out my 2024 Social Media Content Planner & Guide on Amazon (Amazon UK) (Amazon USA)

Louise McDonnell:

Welcome to the Social Media Takeaway. I'm your host, Louise McDonnell, and this is the show for business people who want to learn how to use social media as a sales and marketing tool. If you enjoy the show, please make sure that you subscribe and give us a good five star review. And if there's something in the show that you think would resonate with any of your friends, please make sure that you share it with them. So today I'm delighted to be joined by Steve Donnellan. Steve is an experienced trainer, sales coach, and And the founder of Steve Donnellan Consulting and Soaring Sales Academy. Steve has a passion for helping business owners overcome their challenges around sales. By applying proven strategies learned and developed through 35 years of sales and marketing experience, he shares that you don't have to be an extrovert to succeed at sales. You're very welcome to the show, Steve.

Steve Donnellan:

Thanks very much, Louise.

Louise McDonnell:

I always say about sales that some people would rather stick a pin in their eye I used to work with a girl and she'd say, ask me to do anything, but I will rather stick a pin in my eye than pick up the phone call and make a sales call. So I always think with sales that, you know, people either graduate towards it or they absolutely hate it. And I know for lots of business people and coaches, consultants running their own businesses, you have to do the sales. If you don't have sales, you don't have business. So I'm really intrigued about the subject and I'd love to, first of all, maybe start by hearing about your journey.

Steve Donnellan:

Okay. Yeah. funnily enough, I didn't intend to sort of end up in sales. I started off in marketing. I worked marketing for close to 10 years and my position was made redundant. And I looked, and I've been in working for Kawasaki motorcycles for 10 years. so when I looked for a new job, I didn't find a job in marketing, but I ended up in sales and it was disastrous because I didn't have any sales training and, I, you know, had no idea of what I was doing. And so I got out of sales for a little bit and I went away and I studied and I thought, you know, there's gotta be something more to this sales gig. And I studied, read some books and, Put myself back out there but I got a job that was sales and marketing manager for a motorcycle magazine. So it was a, it was an industry that I knew and I was passionate about but I knew who the customer was because I'd been the customer in fact. so I was able to create a new message about who we were, about the value that we had. and communicate that clearly to the target market. And lo and behold, I had great success and took the magazine sales from 300, 000 per annum to over a million dollars per annum in just under two years. so this, you know, amazing success. And it was all down to this, I'm just finding this sales strategy and applying it.

Louise McDonnell:

Hmm. And actually even before sales, like you touched on it there, like even the messaging, you know, the messaging, even before you sell, even to get somebody's attention through persuasive messaging and people don't pay enough attention to that. you agree?

Steve Donnellan:

Yes. And it comes back to understanding your value as well.

Louise McDonnell:

Yes. Absolutely.

Steve Donnellan:

Yeah. And so those, sort of three things, three things combined. Understanding the customer. Understanding the value that you provide. Yeah. And from the customer's perspective and yeah, putting that in concise messaging.

Louise McDonnell:

And so tell me, let's, let's break that down a little bit more. So let's talk about understanding the customer. So what do you do or how do you advise people to really understand their customers?

Steve Donnellan:

Ah, yes. Okay. And this applies to actual sales when you are having a conversation. And that's the thing, have a conversation, ask questions, rather than, as I say, show and tell doesn't sell. Okay. A lot of people will, are very happy talking about their product or their service talking about, cause they know a lot. They know a lot about what they do. And so they'll start by, telling people about what they do. But that doesn't resonate.

Louise McDonnell:

I'm going to jump in there as well. I actually think that another reason that people do that is that they're probably a little bit nervous.

Steve Donnellan:

Because they don't have a sales strategy and they haven't thought about the questions that they're going to ask in order to have a conversation, but that's all you need to do. Have a conversation first, understand the customer, get to know what's going on in their world. then you can figure out if you've got something that's going to help them. Yeah. And so that's where it starts.

Louise McDonnell:

So if there's someone tuning in here who really wants to have those really meaningful conversations or strategic conversations, what advice would you give them? What questions should they ask?

Steve Donnellan:

Well, what's happening in your business right now? What are you focusing on? what's causing you issues in your business? And what challenges have they got? And that's because ultimately everybody's got challenges. in their business in some way. if they tell you that haven't, they're doing exceptionally well or, you know, they're telling a fib. So if you can, structure the conversation in a way where you get to some challenges, then you can understand where you can help them. But then again, I've also been in situations where I asked the question, tell me about the problems you have with X, Y, Z. And I go, we don't have any problems. Okay. because they're not sort of thinking about their problems. But if you say, I've been working with customers in this area, and they've been telling me that they have this problem, and they have this problem, or this problem, does that ever apply to you? Then you start to get people saying, Ah, yeah, I have that problem. So if you can, talk about the sort of problems that your customers have. In that conversation, it's a bit of a conversation starter just to give them some, insight into what you do and how you help people. Does that make sense?

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah, totally. One of the things that you've done here, I know we had a conversation earlier on is to understand pain points. Now I always say, I don't know about you, but I always say that sometimes people are aware of their customer's problems, but they're not necessarily tuning into their pain. and I believe the problem and the pain are two different things.

Steve Donnellan:

Yeah.

Louise McDonnell:

So the problem is like what they define the problem to be. And the pain is. How it affects them every day.

Steve Donnellan:

Exactly.

Louise McDonnell:

And I think if you can, talk somebody's language, if you can remind them about, you know, did you find this or this scenario or has this happened to you? it tends to be more meaningful. What do you think about that?

Steve Donnellan:

Yeah. if you can get to the pain behind the problem say for instance people say. You know, they have this, problem in their business, you know, they need to be able to print a label in a way or something and it's not working for them. Okay, so that's the problem. and what does that mean for you on a day to day basis? Okay, what impact does that have? On the rest of the business and they might say, Oh, well, it means that, you know, things aren't done in the right, sort of timeframe and it puts pressure on this part of the business. and how does that make you feel? What's the feeling behind it? Yeah, this is something that, you know, this is how I work with customers is to create the question database sort of thing and coach them around having those conversations and being comfortable with. Going a little bit deeper and just taking a breath, pause for a bit, listen. You have to really be in tune with the conversation. You have to be present and Be able to reflect, and it's, it's no problem just taking a moment and just taking it in and then coming back with a, with a response.

Louise McDonnell:

Brilliant. So the first thing you say to do is to understand the client's problems, pain points. Then you also mentioned about knowing the true value of what you provide. So this is kind of outcome based, I would call it outcome based marketing. Yeah. and again, It's a huge area that people don't think about or put enough time and effort into truly understanding the value they provide. What kind of advice do you offer there in that area then, Steve?

Steve Donnellan:

Okay, well, something that I coach clients on is, yeah, building a value database. understanding value that you provide, okay? because people are very good at providing value and, and not actually recognizing it. and not explaining what they do as well. they'll provide a quote for something and it's like one line. yeah, services. Okay. But in fact, there's a whole scope of detail that goes into that. And I say to people, don't be afraid about explaining exactly the process behind what you do. Okay. Cause that's all value. That's all added value that you're providing. So be open about what it is that you do, how you provide the value, but then look, look at the value from the customer's perspective and understand what does it mean to them. What does it mean when you provide a solution and how does it impact their lives? And people, again, they don't go deep enough into understanding the value. Because understand the deep value that you provide in somebody's life. not just to their business, but how do you help the person? Then it gives you more confidence and that helps you have the conversation around sales. It's when you know, exactly what it is that you're doing. It's like all of a sudden, you know, I had a conversation with somebody just recently doing some coaching around their business. I'm not sure that you understand the full value of what you do. The product that you provide has the capacity to change people's lives. And we had a bit of a chat around that. And they went, yeah, actually, you know what? I haven't really looked at it that way before. Yeah. And so just understanding that you can actually provide that sort of impact on people It builds your confidence.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah, it does. Because. Another thing that I would find that a lot of business owners, particularly when they're starting out, I don't know if you find this, Steve, you could have somebody who worked in an organization, worked in a big corporate organization for years, and, you know, were extremely confident in what they did. Within that role. and then I can think of one example, many, but one sticks out in my mind, this girl and she made millions for the company that she was working in. And then when she started working for herself, this, Ooh, what will I charge? You know? And I was like, yeah, but look at the outcome. look at what you're going to do for whatever business you work with. And that's the outcome and the value that you can bring to them is absolutely massive. So yeah, exactly. and so you were saying having great products and services alone, doesn't lead to sales without the right strategy.

Steve Donnellan:

Yeah, exactly. Because, in that situation, a lot of people will come from, you know, a corporate role and launch their own business, have a great product, and open the doors and expect it fly off the shelves. No, doesn't quite work like that, does it? No. because like you say, we have this reservation about putting ourselves out there. If you're a business owner, okay? It's personal, yeah? And so when you've got a big brand behind you and you know, somebody else is doing the marketing and there's maybe even a sales department taking care of the sales, you can represent the company because you've got some impact behind you, but when you're on your own, you're naked out there on, on your own. And so, people don't want to be seen. so therefore, yeah, people need to have some strategy behind what it is that they're doing. And, like I said, having a database of, of questions, understanding the value. and being able to put that into, clear and concise messaging all helps. Oh, it's all part of social media strategy. You're going to have one of those as well.

Louise McDonnell:

In fact, the messaging needs to be consistent across everything you do. If you're saying one thing on your website and another thing on your social media, but you're not even on social media and another thing when you're meeting people. I know we're going to get to social media, but I know you also, you give advice to people that are, let's say, maybe ad exhibitions or trade shows. You're saying the number one reason why business owners fail to engage with customers at exhibition and trades shows is the lack of a sales strategy. So again, like that, if somebody is at a, at a trade show and exhibition, what advice would you give them?

Steve Donnellan:

Show and tell doesn't sell. So Again, I mentioned that before, and It's the same thing. You know, it's a sales situation, and people, tend to think I've got this person's attention. You know, this person has stopped. They've shown some interest, and I've got their attention for a very short space of time, so I better tell them everything. And so you're launching your presentation and it doesn't connect because people don't see how it impacts them. It's too general. It's everything. but you know they may be interested in one particular feature. Or they might have another problem altogether that this product isn't going to solve. So people in that, exhibitions and trade shows for the space, they'll just tell people about their stuff. People don't care about what you do. They only care about how you help them. So again, dial it back, flip the script, and have a conversation. ask the question, say What brought you to the exhibition today? Was there anything in particular that you came here to see? Okay, so general icebreaker question. and an open question. You know, not something that's going to get a yes or no answer, but something that they have to answer and so have a conversation, find out what's going on for them. What did they come here to see? Okay, and what caused that? And so if they've stopped to talk to you, there must be something there that's attracted them, but you don't know what it is. So have the conversation, ask them some questions and then get a feel for where they're at. and this, this applies in a sales conversation as well. And to transition. Because this is somewhere where people sort of trip up, where they, they get stuck. They don't want to be salesy. They don't want to impose. You can say something like okay, well, I've got a bit of an understanding of, what it is that you're, looking for. Would you like to hear about how our product might be able to help you? What are you going to say? You say, of course, So you can, ask a question, is it okay if I talk about how. You know, our product can help you. Is that okay? Yeah. And I go, yeah, they want to know all of a sudden, because you've taken the time to find out a little bit about them. And now you can talk about your product or service as it relates to the problem, that they've just told you about. now, you've narrowed the focus rather than talking about everything. You've narrowed it down to what's important to them, how you can help them.

Louise McDonnell:

Okay. And so you've had that conversation now you've listened to their problems and their pains and you've asked them for the invitation to present. The solution, which should be not about just a list of what you do, but it should be based on the outcome for the client and what their service or product is going to do for them. What's the next stage then, Steve?

Steve Donnellan:

Well, I guess that's the question. So, Louise. We've talked about how this can help you and you mentioned how this problem was going on you know, you don't want that to continue for, you know, another six months. So if this solution can actually solve. what we're talking about, what would you see as being the next steps here? What would you like to do?

Louise McDonnell:

So you put it back on, you put it back.

Steve Donnellan:

Well, yeah, I, I'd like to go ahead or, you know, I'd like a demonstration at home or whatever the case may be. So again, ask them, what do you see as the next steps?

Louise McDonnell:

Very good. And how do you handle objections then, Steve?

Steve Donnellan:

Ah, well, there's a couple of ways. A good way of handling objections, if, well, objections, typically there's only about five or six common objections that come up, and you know what they are as well. Here's the thing, you know what the objections are. So have you prepared answers in advance for your objections? Not many people do. Okay. But as part of a sales strategy, this is what you will do. You'll prepare objections in advance. And so you've got answers ready to go, you know, you might have rehearsed them a little bit. so then you can answer some objections as they come up. But another way of handling objections is if there's a common objection, that comes up in every sales presentation, put it into the presentation. and answer it in advance. Like you know, the most expensive solution in the, marketplace. And you could say some people find our solution is more expensive. Some people say that our i than our competitors. And there's a reason for that because X, Y, Z. And so you can, you can put it into the presentation. And so it answers the objection before it even comes up, be upfront with these sort of things. And when you do get an objection, you can ask a question. Don't answer the objection straight away. Ask a question to get to what's the real reason behind the objection. Because the first objection isn't always the real objection. So you have to dig deeper. Yeah. So it might be okay, well that's a really good point. Can you tell me why that's important for you? Something along those lines.

Louise McDonnell:

Very good. Very good. And so then how do you bring that sales meeting to its natural conclusion? Do you just get to the point where either you ask for the business or you make a plan to the next stage?

Steve Donnellan:

So you've talked about the next steps. you might've gone through some objections and again, okay. So Louise. we've talked about all the different, aspects of the solution, and we've talked about how this is going to help you solve this problem, and you said that problem is keeping you up at night. and you know how important sleep is. So, given that this product is going to solve that problem, it's going to help you sleep better. How do you want to go ahead? How do you want to proceed? When would you like to have this solution in place? So there's different ways you can, you can do a soft, sort of close, when would you like to see this solution in place? Mm hmm. Where's your checkbook? We don't have a checkbook anymore. where's your card? Would you like to place a deposit? up to you. And you get the feeling from the situation. If somebody's, you know, really keen to go, okay, let's take a deposit.

Louise McDonnell:

Very good. Very good. what about then social media, how would you apply all of your expertise in sales and like the people that are tuning in here, this is the social media takeaway podcast. So what advice would you give them about applying traditional sales tactics to social media?

Steve Donnellan:

Okay. Well people make purchase. Well, there is a percentage, 95 percent of, and this is scientifically proven, 95 percent of purchasing decisions are made subconsciously. Okay. because if you've ever seen Simon Sinek's You know, YouTube video. Start with why? Yeah, explains it really well. The limbic brain. Yeah. Exactly the same thing. We make purchasing decisions on an emotional level and then we rationalize it with facts and figures. So you have to be, you have to engage with people's emotions. And one way to do that is with stories. as you know, in, marketing and social media, stories can be really important and. It can be customer stories. It can be, you know testimonials. It can be your own story about how you, started your business. And these can be you know, used in different ways. facts tell and stories sell. Yeah. so engaged with try to create some emotional engagement in your social media content and try to tap into that area of us

Louise McDonnell:

Human connection.

Steve Donnellan:

Yeah. The human connection. Yeah. Yeah.

Louise McDonnell:

I completely agree. Yeah. I actually think Steve, as things have moved on in social media, I suppose I've been in, in the social media game 15 years now. So, you know, there was a time where it was the glossy, you know, everything had to look really professional and glossy. I think it's gone nearly, it's flipped now. the emotional hook is more important now than ever that creating that connection. So again, talking about the pain rather than the problem you know, creating that human connection with somebody so that they know, like, and trust you because they're more likely to want to do business with you if they, if they know you, you know.

Steve Donnellan:

because it's still the same principles apply in, you know, people don't care about what you do. So if you're explaining, you know, in your social media, what it is that you do, it doesn't resonate. It's people want to know, and they want to know quickly, how can you help me?

Louise McDonnell:

not what you do, it's what you do for them.

Steve Donnellan:

Yeah. if you can talk about the problems that your customers, have and the problems that you help them with, that's when they see, that's when they connect. Cause you know, again, our ancient brain is always looking for opportunities and threats. that's how we're wired. We're always, always looking out for, you know, things that can help us or things that can harm us. I think that we're actually a little bit skewed towards looking for things that can harm us. We're always on the lookout for problems. And so when you talk about the problems, people have that you, can help, then they see themselves in that. And that's when they, you know, stop, it will stop the scroll when they see themselves in a problem.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree. And the hard sell doesn't work on social media, you know no, no, it's really about forming relationships first. Would you agree?

Steve Donnellan:

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, we connected over LinkedIn and we connected through connecting, not just posts, but, you know, actually, having a conversation from, comments maybe a couple of DMS in that. So It's about, making connections.

Louise McDonnell:

It's so true. And, and, I know two things to add to that. Like there was, I, I put up a post earlier on in the week. I don't even remember which one it was. And, when somebody comments, it's massive because you get a notification. Oh, you're like, Oh, who commented? And it was somebody going, Oh, if you need any help with that, we have, we have a solution that does that. And I'm like, Go away. Like it's your first time interacting with me. I'm not even going to read it. so just the hard sell, whereas if they had just connected and said, Oh yeah, that's a great approach or, you know, you would have had more of a conversation before trying to sell to somebody who does, who doesn't know you. And the other thing is I was at actually a business networking events this morning. And and I was at the same event this time last year, and I connected with a few people on LinkedIn actually following the event. as I walked into the events this year, like a lot of the same faces were there, but the only names that I knew up the top of my tongue. Where the people I connected with on LinkedIn, so there is the whole benefit of social media is that you're not just meeting once a year, you're meeting once a week and you know their name and you know what they're doing and you know what's happening in their lives and in their work connected with them. So there's the true value of social media. okay, so any, any other trends or, things that you see happening or changing over time, or is it always the same, Steve?

Steve Donnellan:

The same things do come up when I'm speaking with business owners and the not wanting to be salesy, not want to impose, on people, you know, asking them to buy sort of thing. it is so common. And that's why the exhibition sort of work is so interesting because 95 percent of business owners are stuck in that pattern of show and tell, where they'll tell you everything and ask you nothing. Literally, they will talk to you for 5, 10 minutes and not ask you a question. And so, that's some way where I'm, I'm actively sort of working, I'm doing some research at the moment speaking to a lot of business owners and really getting inside their heads and understanding where they're at and what's, you know, what problems does this lack of a strategy have and what are their pain points around, yeah, sort of exhibitions and trade shows.

Louise McDonnell:

And are using any AI tools or recommending any tools, Steve?

Steve Donnellan:

Well, Louise being a listener to your podcast, there was an episode, there was an episode, oh, a few months ago that you did on AI. if I haven't told you about that, then I'm terribly remiss. No, I did, I, I, I commented at least on the, the post at the time. I went back and I put a comment. I said, oh, this is, this is unreal. This is fantastic. So, yeah, What you shared in that podcast changed things for me.

Louise McDonnell:

Oh, great. That's so nice. Yeah. Actually, what I started to do was I don't know if you listened to the podcast episode that I had with, Joseph McGuire about the face facts

Steve Donnellan:

yes.

Louise McDonnell:

I was actually doing it. So Joseph was saying in his, like, I just found that fascinating. And he was saying that if, if you're doing a sales pitch and if somebody sits back in their seat and smiles, then they see it as entertainment and they're not interested, but if he's kind of tilting their heads or touching their face or like, you know, like, so. And they're really listening that are they sit forward, then, you know, they're engaging. About two or three weeks later, I had a workshop of people. And at the end of the workshop, I was pitching them one of my coaching programs. And there was a lady in the workshop that I knew she came on. I knew she wouldn't be interested, but she was welcome to come on the workshop anyhow. But as I started to do the pitch, she sat back in her seat and started smiling. And I was like, Oh my goodness, I was like, but that's okay. So I knew then to focus on other people who were listening and tilting their heads. Yeah. Oh, wow.

Steve Donnellan:

No, yeah, that was, that was really good. Yeah. Yeah. And

Louise McDonnell:

then another thing then somebody else had said to me is that I downloaded the transcript from, if you start recording your sales conversations with people and then download the transcript and put it up to chat GPT and say, how did I do?

Steve Donnellan:

Yeah.

Louise McDonnell:

And it'll tell you.

Steve Donnellan:

Yes. haven't done that, but yeah.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah. Good thing to do because it can always be getting better. and you, you, you probably find this as well, like, I think a lot of this with people not being able to sell is, confidence, but also their nerves that they're in a situation, they maybe have to make it work or they're not that comfortable themselves. And sometimes you'll talk too much when you're nervous.

Steve Donnellan:

Absolutely. Sales is their lifeblood, if they're not selling, they don't have a business. it's important. but people are wary of it. You know, they're wary of me because they think that, Oh, I'm going to keep this guy at arm's length because, I can't let him start selling to me. I, you know, I'm just, yeah. you know, I get it. And so I, but again, I like to think of myself as not salesy. Yeah. I'm, very introverted naturally. And you know, I was just used to be so self conscious now I have sort of got over that to a great extent. And because of my experience, I've decided that I have to put myself out there because I've got something of value because I've done the work. I know what value I have and I know the value that it can bring to people's lives, not just their business, but their lives.

Louise McDonnell:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Because if they can't sleep better at night because they've solved those problems, they've got the sales in, they're not under as much pressure, like that transforms somebody's life and it transforms everybody else's life in the office.

Steve Donnellan:

And yeah, a whole string of people. So yeah, it is important. so that's why I decided to, go down this route because I sort of had cracked the code but it took years of work, you know, as, as you said in the introduction, 35 years of sales and marketing experience. Here's the thing I was doing it wrong for probably. 30 of those years.

Louise McDonnell:

And that's okay too.

Steve Donnellan:

Still have, still got some success, but. it's, it's like, yeah, I went back to school and started to really figure it out.

Louise McDonnell:

I know. Look, so the key takeaways from today is that there is a process when you're selling

Steve Donnellan:

people don't care about what you do. They only care about how you can help them.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah, exactly. And it's more about listening than, than speaking. Yeah. if you need any help with your selling how can people find you, Steve?

Steve Donnellan:

Okay. The website is. soaring-sales.Com and it's soaring-sales.com

Louise McDonnell:

fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on the show and for sharing all your advice. I know I've picked up lots of tidbits here today. I'm definitely would be guilty of probably talking too much and not listening. So I'm going to do that more. And again how can people find you on social media?

Steve Donnellan:

Okay. LinkedIn is the place. Steve D sales coach

Louise McDonnell:

Well, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Steve Donnellan:

Thanks very much, Louise.