The Social Media Takeaway - Louise McDonnell

Why Clear Offers and Strong Strategies Drive Sales

• Louise McDonnell • Season 1 • Episode 43

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In this week's episode of the Social Media Takeaway, I’m delighted to welcome Debbie White, an award-winning marketing expert with three decades of experience working with major brands like Starbucks and Nordstrom. Debbie joins me to dive into the importance of having a clear offer and a focused messaging strategy, which we both believe are the foundations for any successful business. We also discuss how service providers can make their offers "magnetic" to attract the right clients. We explore the steps needed to understand your ideal customer, the key elements that make an offer irresistible, and why confidence in your pricing is essential. If you've been feeling like your marketing is an uphill battle, this episode will help you realign and focus on what matters most.

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Louise McDonnell:

Welcome to the Social Media Takeaway. I'm your host Louise McDonnell and this is the show for business people who want to learn how to use social media to drive sales and leads for their business. If you enjoy the show, please make sure you subscribe. And if there's anyone you know that would enjoy listening to any of the episodes, make sure you share it with them. So today I am absolutely delighted to be joined by Debbie White we're going to be speaking about the importance of having a clear offer and a clear messaging strategy. Now, anyone who listens to me knows that this is absolutely something that I believe is the foundation. you will not get success unless you have the foundations, right? So Debbie is an award winning marketing expert with three decades of experience working with fortune 500 companies, including Starbucks and Nordstrom. She is dedicated to helping service providers and experts develop stand out, impactful brands and businesses. And she has developed a system called the lighthouse effect system to help brands dominate their niche with focus messaging offers and a simple marketing process. You're very welcome.

Debbie White:

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm so glad to be here.

Louise McDonnell:

Oh, so do you want to maybe tell us a little bit about your backstory? You mentioned that you worked for like large brands like Starbucks. So, you know, obviously that is informed like where you are today. So maybe just paint the picture for us.

Debbie White:

Yeah, I actually spent literally three decades. I started very young. I started in New York city and I ended up moving to Seattle and I helped launch Starbucks nationally before it went international. That was a long time ago. So that was in the early nineties. So I was there on the ground literally, you know, sat right next to the designer that was cropping the siren when she used to have her full legs exposed. Like, would it look better if we cropped her crotch out? Can I say that? I mean, literally it's, it's fun. I mean, deciding that yes, that green Pantone color was going to be the brand color. And what did that brand stand for? I got to meet Howard Schultz. looking back. Like I can't believe I was at the table because it was a small table back then. So that's really a big part of how I cut my teeth in the business. And. Everything I've done. So I started in the creative advertising side. So we came up with the marketing campaign and what the creative would be. And I did that. I worked on major brands and of course I live in Seattle, so I got to work on some of the biggest brands. In the world. I mean, you look at Starbucks Nordstrom, you know, Microsoft, major, major brands are in the Pacific Northwest. And then, of course, they're, you know, global marketing. So, from there, I ended up having my own ad agency and you know, I really love strategy. I'm a type of person. I'm very creative, yet. I love strategy. I also have not worked for another company. In 30 years. So this whole time I've been doing things. Once I launched helped launch Starbucks, I went on on my own and I've, I've started six different businesses. So I look at it, like all of this was so I could be. Have all the tools that you would need to really help service providers. It's my heart, you know, our people that are here to make a difference, to help them grow their business with marketing and not just any marketing marketing that positions them as the one and only brand for their ideal audience, because that's, like you said, it is the foundation. So that's kind of the broad stroke of like how I went from here to being a coach. I've started so many businesses, my, I just have a huge passion for people that are running their own businesses. And

Louise McDonnell:

I was saying we've so much in common, like I actually think that for service marketers, it's actually, it's a lot more difficult. That's an area that I specialized even in college of service marketing, because you know, you're selling yourself, you're not selling a product, you're selling, you are so it's, I think sometimes people find that a little bit harder. I know the audience are wishing me to ask this question, so I'm going to roll back a little bit if you don't mind. Okay. Go for it. So I just love this idea of you sitting around the table in Starbucks. Tell us a little about their branding and tell us about the decisions that were made and you know, cause obviously this is a hugely worldwide successful brand. So tell us what we need to tune into, what we need to notice. Okay.

Debbie White:

Well, I got to be a part of some pretty incredible conversations and pretty pivotal things at the time. What's really interesting, if you go back, sometimes looking back, you're kind of like, what were they thinking? So this is interesting. I actually got to write and art direct their very first TV commercial. I can't even find it anywhere. But their very first TV commercial, believe it or not, Was selling coffee machines, who would think so that was a misfire strategy wise, I think we can all agree with that. Right. So, there were some misfires we were helping them launch before they IPO before they went public as a, you know, on the website. You know, it's a traded company. And I look back like, why didn't I not scrape together a couple dollars and buy Starbucks stock? I don't know. I did it like really, but I did get to sit at the table. We were talking about the strategy conversations and the marketing director. There was one particular dinner. I look back on it and I think I was at the time, 28 years old, I'm giving away my age here. I'm 28 years old. I'm at a very high end restaurant overlooking Lake Washington at the table with the marketing director of Starbucks, the creative director of the ad agency I worked at, the head copywriter, and myself. Just us four. They're all having Manhattan's. I'm so green. I don't even know what a Manhattan is. And so I'd like to take a sip. I'm like, oh, my God, that's solid alcohol. I'm like, where am I? I mean, I look back like I was so ballsy. Like, what the hell was I doing? Anyway, they were having conversations about where Starbucks was going. And I'll never forget. Mind you, this is when Starbucks was only in Seattle. Not in any other market yet. And the marketing director, his name was Derek said, we are going to be the McDonald's of coffee. And I'm like, really? And so we had this very juicy conversation. And I remember thinking, so I grew up in Houston, Texas. It's very hot there. I'm having a hard time imagining, people wanting hot coffee. And so we just kept the conversation going about the vision, And it's like, that is the vision. And we're like, okay, so what do we need to do strategically for that to be the vision? And as you know, the vision was it to be this community gathering place very much inspired by Howard Schultz on his trips to Italy when he saw the cafes. So that was the vision. And you can see how that vision kind of started. That seed was there. And like how they took that vision and of course they're struggling right now. Like they were dominant now they're kind of going through some growth things, you know. 30 years later but they're incredibly dominant. And then, of course, they dropped the name coffee. I think it was like 10 years ago. So they're more than just coffee. But that all came down to strategy and how do you bring the creative, the look, the feel of not just the packaging, but the environment down to how the baristas are trained, you know, back then, like the name on the cup, like they were doing that back then. Yeah. And so it's just really interesting to see how it's a very holistic thing where we want to create a brand. That's a category of 1 and they did right. Love them or hate them. All the little local coffee shops are like, you know, Starbucks, their coffee's bitter. They're no good. But like, meanwhile, they became this giant iconic brand. So all of that definitely influences how I work with service providers because it's the same thing.

Louise McDonnell:

And I, I know one of the first things that you help people do is to create a magnetic offer. like, I suppose I would say to anyone listening in, okay. If your marketing feels hard, if it feels difficult, chances are it's not right. So for anyone that's sitting here, service provider in particular, cause that's your area of expertise. And if they feel this is too hard, I'm pushing uphill all the time. Debbie, what advice would you give them?

Debbie White:

I would say it probably is your offer your marketing. And I think there was a misnomer where people think if I just start talking about all the things and somehow they're going to want to work with me. you're putting the cart before the horse. So just like Starbucks, we had to get really clear on what's the vision of a company. The product itself, what's unique and different for Starbucks, you know, it is a brick and mortar store, but it's, it was very much a building, a, brand, a movement, if you will that's what service providers do. So, I, I really do, I start everyone with your why, like, what movement are you creating? That might be a little broad, but like, what's your gift to the world? Why are you doing this? And then when it gets to an offer, all roads lead to that, what I call your signature front door offer. You might have three offers, but you need to have one where you become known for that one offer. And I mean, I can get real tactical, but the way I do it is we have like a three, four step process that we take people through, you have to understand your audience really, really well, we do market research. Then you take that. And then we need to look at what do you do unique and differently? Because every service provider. Takes their steps. Every service provider takes their clients through They must take their clients through in order for them to have the transformation. So we have them map it out. And then I have a signature process where we literally turn that into your signature system. And it's all very benefit driven. It's easy to talk about. So it's distilling that so you can describe it in a way that not only makes sense, but it's highly magnetic to the person that wants that. It's specific. It's solving key problems. Now, it's like, oh, wow, you take all that, you know, that's how you map out your content. So to your, I know that sounds a little complex, but did that sound complex? why should someone work with you? what is your process? and I want to put an asterisk on that. It's not the process. It's it's actually, what are the micro promises that they get? When they work with you, it's not about the process at all.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah. It's about the outcome. Isn't it? Yeah. Oh, and I was thinking about this recently and I just actually did a post on it on my own social media. But it's something I think people need to think about all the time is that sometimes I think, and service providers, everybody can fall into this trap, but I think service providers more than anything, like people will buy not what they, what they need but what they want. Yes. And sometimes as an expert in your field, I can look at someone and say, well, I know what they need. They need to do X, Y, and Z, one, two, and three. But if that person doesn't believe that they need that, they won't want it. That's right. You know, so I think understand, I know you talk about understanding your ideal customer as well. So like, how do you help people going through your programs? How do you help them to truly understand their ideal customer in a way that the messaging is about who they're targeting and not themselves?

Debbie White:

Yeah, and this happens a lot, especially people newer in the industry. It's, and this is common, by the way. They'll just kind of mirror their own wants and wishes onto this is who I'm serving. That's very classic. It's where a lot of people start. Nothing wrong with that. But you have to be onto yourself too. Because there's nuances and it gets into the specificity is really important. I mean, I probably have said that word more than any other word coaching in the last year and a half because it's gotten to where we have to be very clear and specific on how we're helping people. And it has to be what people want. I'm going to use Starbucks because this just dropped in my head as an example, since we're talking about it. Starbucks doesn't sell a cup of water with caffeine in it that tastes, you know, like we're not, that's not what they're selling. They're not selling how they roast the beans, and they put it in the machine, and then they train the baristas, and it's a special machine, and it has a special drip, the way it pulls the caffeine through. That's the process. Most service providers start talking about that. They don't care. It's not what they're buying. So really, we're going to go even broader here. People are buying the feeling. People go into Starbucks and order decaf coffee. What is that about? The experience as well. People are buying the feeling of the experience. They're buying, like, being a part of the culture. They're buying being a part of the community. They're buying, you know, I want to be in a coffeehouse vibe and do a little work. They're buying that. They're buying now. It's the convenience. I can order. I mean, they're buying the benefits, but they're also buying the feeling that those benefits give them. So for us as a service provider, we have to get very clear on what do they actually want. I will say of all the work I do, getting that drill down is the most you know, granular work we need to do. And I, I deep dive in that front end part. Like crazy. Because if we get it right, it's like everything else falls into place. Like a beautiful puzzle that they didn't even know they had all the pieces to.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah. It becomes easy. Okay. So for somebody who wants to really delve down deep into what their ideal customer, what they want to feel, what they want, any tips you can give them for, for doing that or.

Debbie White:

Yeah, I mean, we have you know, interview questions, but you really need to talk and actually ask people you actually need to take the time. And I even think that it's more important. You take the time to have a back and forth conversation and not just send an email out or, hey, can you drop your comments and tell me. Because when people start writing, they start self editing their actual voice and their actual words. And they start, they start writing like an, like an English high school paper or something. So we need to hear how they talk. So for instance, what I'm talking about in marketing is called brand strategy. Nobody in the coaching industry or surface writer wants to buy brand strategy. I can tell you that right now. Okay. Yeah. The name of my, you know, we're actually going through a whole rebrand right now. And when this comes out, I think we'll be there, but we're actually rebranding to clarity wins clients. Now that they want, but imagine if the brand was brand strategy by Debbie. So we have to get to what do our, ideal clients that we love working with? what do they actually want? How do they talk about it in their own language? So my clients tend to talk about it. Like I need clear messaging. Okay, right. I want to stand out and I want to be able to attract more clients. Okay, that's how they talk about it. I use that language. That's their language. It may not be mine, but it's how they talk about it. So for everyone listening, it means literally talking with people and. make sure you're doing most of the listening and asking a lot of questions. Like you have no idea, like, really, tell me more about that. Hmm. That's why that, I mean, just ask a lot of questions. Right. What kind of things are you looking for? If you could wave a magic wand, what would your ideal solution look like at just keep asking?

Louise McDonnell:

here's something to do for anyone that's tuning in, sit down and put aside an afternoon, organize short calls with your clients. A few questions as Debbie says, ask the question and zip it because, you know, sometimes I think in those calls, people are uncomfortable and because they're outside their comfort zone. So when you're outside your comfort zone, most people tend to talk too much when they're outside their comfort zone, just give yourself the permission to be outside your comfort zone and zip it. And so ask the question and close, close your mouth and there will be an uncomfortable silence because your client's going to be thinking about what they're going to say, but don't fill the silence. Don't fill the silence. Just let them talk. And I would record it and then put the whole thing.

Debbie White:

Yeah, definitely. And now there's transcripts. So it's gold,

Louise McDonnell:

gold.

Debbie White:

You know, literally, I mean, I'll share what we do. We actually transcribe the transcripts and then we use AI. That said, I use it as a tool. You have to be the boss of all of it. We actually have like AI tools we're coming up with because it's just where the world is, but you can literally like season your own, you know, chat bot with all of this juicy information. Like these are the words of my, ideal clients. This is how they talk about it. You know, like, Oh, right. This is what they want. So let's pull it together and let's pull, like, do five interviews. What are the common words, like list words that they use, find the patterns and come up with the top words they use in order from, you know, one to 10. That would be fascinating because we look for patterns. How are they talking about it? What words are they using? Huh? And the other thing, I'm going to kind of get into a great offer also has. And the way we talk about it, it's very benefit driven. So if there's key things, they say they want. And you're, you kind of know what they are, and there's key steps you take them through. Why not give them like, instead of, Oh, first we do a deep dive and we unpack your history. Like we map out your North star number one, like, Oh, I want my North star mapped out. every step is like a key thing they want. So now you're able to talk about your offer and your, potential clients going, Ooh, Ooh, that's juicy. Ooh, I want that. I want that. It sounds amazing. It doesn't talk about all the, audits you're going to do or the things you're going to talk about, what they need, what they want, right. And kind of going back to Starbucks, you know, like you're not, they're not talking about how they process it, how they roast the beans, grams of caffeine in your cup. It's like, first, we're going to hand you a cup with your name on it. You know, and it's going to be custom just as specifically what you order. Then you're going to have this beautiful, coffee shop cafe environment where you can sit down with your laptop. Then, you know, it's like the whole thing, right? Or you can get it to go and we'll have your order ready for you waiting with your name on it. Okay. So it's what do they get? What do they get? What do they get?

Louise McDonnell:

It's so true. It's so I think this is really, really useful. Actually, one of the things that one of my last, it's not my last podcast. It's a, it's a few episodes ago, but for anyone tuning in another thing, which is extremely useful. Especially if you decide to have those customer conversations is the reading, the facial expressions and the body language. So I did a podcast episode a few weeks ago with Joseph Maguire. And actually, since I've had that podcast interview with him, it's so funny when I'm on a sales call, now, this is later on when you're talking about your offer, somebody sits back and smile like this. They think it's entertainment, they're not interested if they're sitting forwards, or if they're bending their heads or if it's a man, if he's touching his beard or his face,

Debbie White:

or if there's like nothing and they're like sitting back. I mean, it's true. Like we pick up on subtleties. We know.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah.

Debbie White:

Yeah. I'll talk about this too, real quick. Cause I think pricing a lot of our clients I will say 99%. Probably 99. 9 percent of the people I work with, their pricing is too low. And once we map out their offer those steps, I call them milestones. So they're, and it becomes their signature process. I'm like, this is so valuable. Oh, my gosh. It's like they realize how valuable it is. First of all, don't ever price it for what you would pay. You're not your client. You do not have their bank account. Second of all when you're able to speak to the value of what they get and the benefits from just doing that, like, I literally have a left column of where they start. And a right column with these benefit driven milestones and how they talk about their offer on paper. And for all practical purposes, it is more valuable. And so that allows you to feel really excited about realizing the value you're offering someone. Every step of the way is another step of transformation for your client. And so that's a big part of it too. And then the other thing I'll say about pricing is kind of getting into mindset, but you have to be so in love with your offer and feel so amazing that it's the most incredible value. I don't care if it's 10, 000 or, you know, a thousand, whatever it's at priced at, you have to be so excited before you can ever sit there and say to someone, because if you're hedging, they're going to feel it right away.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah, exactly. you have to be confident, you know, you you have to get to the point when you tell somebody the price. and I know lots of businesses that start out I see this all the time. I don't know if you see it too, Debbie. So I remember the people that have been working for large corporations and they're billing out at a certain rate or they're charging, you know, thousands and thousands and thousands. And then when they start to work for themselves, they bring it right back to, Oh, but goodness gracious, I can't possibly, and it's like that, lack of confidence, you know? So and I remember starting off myself in my in business over 15 years ago. And I remember like that, I would have. I had no problem charging for anyone else, but I couldn't literally get the words out of my mouth to tell people what I was going to price. And so I said, I'll email you. And so I'd always email on the quote. But then what happens is when you get a bit of confidence, you're like, that's the price. And that's what it's going to do for you.

Debbie White:

Yeah,

Louise McDonnell:

and, when you get that confidence, if somebody says no, or to push his back, I think you're able to go, but that's okay. It's just not for you.

Debbie White:

That's the key that thank you for bringing that up. I really do think that's the key is when you offer something to someone, there can't be here's the other thing there's confidence and then you have to be unattached. This is all mindset stuff. if there's anything in you, that's like, I got to have this client. I got to get this offer. Like it's repellent. So you have to be able to offer like totally fine. If it's not for you energy, like totally great. If it's not for you, but if it is, it would be so great too. Yeah. Either way is great. And then it's just like, it's a number. it's just a transfer of commitment, you know, and that's it. And so that, that takes a little practice, but if you can really be in that place where, like, hey, if this works for you, it's 15, 000, if it doesn't, like, that's great and just whatever. I'm just throwing numbers out for fun, but whatever that is, and I did this in the beginning too, when I got into coaching, because I'm used to doing big, giant proposals that are for corporations that, like, A 500, 000 quote is not a big deal because I might have a team of 12 working on it. but when it's me, it's like, Oh, this is different. So I would practice saying it where it was just like, you know, how much is coffee? Well, this drink was 8. How much is this? 8, 000. Well, how much is this? 800. It's a number and it's amazing. And if you want it, that's great. If you don't, totally fine.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah,

Debbie White:

just into that flow of releasing.

Louise McDonnell:

you know, if people don't get their pricing right, this is again, something that I say all the time to people, have you incorporated, like sometimes they're pricing at a minimum, they're trying to charge as little as they can, or they don't feel they're worth it. And then they haven't considered. A marketing costs like you're gonna have to pay to find customers. So if you haven't incorporated that into your price, how are you going to find customers? How are you going to have a budget? Because you're going to need to spend money to find new people. So, yes, you know,

Debbie White:

money and time,

Louise McDonnell:

money and time. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Debbie White:

And you want to grow and it's a really good point. We don't use ads. I know you do. And there's different ways that right. And there's different ways of doing things. But that said, I mean, we have a high overhead costs, you know, I have a team you want to be able to price where you can have a virtual assistant come in once you get traction, right? You don't want to be, you know, so it literally. for all businesses. Like, we have to get to that place where we open up a spreadsheet and run numbers. Yeah. I'm always shocked when I say, what's your offer? What are your goals? I run the numbers. I'm like, okay, well you're at 25% of your goals with a full private coach with your private coaching practice being full with the hours you just told me you wanna work. So, and like, oh, I haven't run those numbers. Like, guys, you gotta run your numbers. You know, you've gotta look at your, you are the CEO of your business. You also have to be the CFO. You're also the CMO. I'm throwing all these things out. You're the Chief Marketing Officer. You're in charge of the finances. It's imperative. If you want to grow a business, you have to get in and run numbers. I know a lot of people don't want to hear that, but it's fun when there are numbers working in your favor. Those are fun numbers to look at.

Louise McDonnell:

you're right. Like if you filled already filled every hour and you're not where you want to be financially, where are you going to, how are you going to.

Debbie White:

Exactly. I'm, I'm literally shocked when I, I can't, I'd say the majority of people I work with, we look at a spreadsheet and they're like, Oh, I'm like, Hmm. So, you know, and then I like to stair step them up to kind of build their confidence with pricing. I think that, especially if they're newer great, get a few people in, and then like the first three at that price. Every time you raise it. And you raise it and you stair step your app into confidence of quoting that higher price.

Louise McDonnell:

I love it. I love it. You also say this and I love it too. All roads lead to a sales call.

Debbie White:

All roads. What's the point of marketing? What's the point if they're not leading to a sale? Yes. There is none, but yet. This is what blows my mind to people say. I post every day. I'm like, okay, and I'll go look at their content. There's not 1 call to take any action whatsoever. And then I ask, are you building relationships? And I'm like, oh, I meet people and stuff. And I'm, I'm commenting. I'm like, no, no, that's not what I mean. Guys, we have to tap people on the shoulder. I'm sorry. I mean, I would be curious to hear your thoughts on this. I personally feel like, especially in the last year and a half. The days of like, I did a great piece of content and just people drop in your lap are over. That might be controversial, but we are building relationships and you bet we're tapping people on the shoulder. I

Louise McDonnell:

completely agree. I call it the nurture trap. Exactly. I think there are people that are really busy on social media, creating content continually, putting time and effort in, but they never actually think about getting people towards a sales call and actually closing the sale. And, you know, even when you're starting off, You're not going to have the budgets for, for scaling, but you can tap into your personal network and you can work really hard and put time in and you can make that work for you. Exactly. And even then, when you're scaling, you still need to have the, like, you still need to close the sale.

Debbie White:

and here's, I think this is also depending on where you're at in your business. Those of us that have been doing this for a few years, we know the truth is 80 percent of our time and focus is on getting new clients. If it's not, you're not growing at the clip you want to be. And I think that's the, kind of the dirty little secret no one wants to talk about. You show me a business where that's not true. And I think there's a misconception of, and again, I get it as a marketer. You know, I get it. We want it to look so easy breezy. It can be simple. You have to, it doesn't take out the fact that you have to be focused on building. Right. It should be simple. It should be a clear roadmap of what to do next with this idea. If I create this great reel or this great post, and I just do that a couple of times a week, clients are going to land in my lap. That is false. And so it is all about nurturing and you need a process. Right.

Louise McDonnell:

Absolutely. Yeah. And again, this goes back to, I keep saying this over and over again, like you're sometimes you see what people need versus what they want, and then you see them following these accounts that are helping them going to have a viral reel. And you're like, at the end of the day, you could have one reel or 10, like I've had lots of people with 50, 100, 000 followers come to me and go, but how do you monetize?

Debbie White:

Oh, my gosh.

Louise McDonnell:

Because all you're doing is just growing followers and viewers and that's not going to, that's not going to. Yeah. Right.

Debbie White:

So exactly. So if all roads lead to a sales call, the flag that's waving him to the sales call is that one signature offer that is very benefit forward and specific on what they're looking for. That's the straight road. That's the straight path. It makes everything so much simpler. But yeah, there's a lot of that. And Instagram, I think is almost even more so that way. And here's the thing. Here's just to be honest. I mean, I'm just calling a spade a spade. Some of the biggest accounts on Instagram are teaching people how to grow on Instagram. Yeah. So unless you're an Instagram coach, you're not going to have that kind of numbers. Yeah. I'm being honest. And so if you're a hormone coach, or if you're a wellness coach, or if you're a an executive leadership coach, like it's a very different ball game. It's same principles, but just, just there's a, there's a little bit of a, does that make sense when I'm talking to you about, cause I see that and I'm like, okay. Yeah, especially when we get into like low ticket offers and big giant audiences that might not work for you. That might not be a good runway for you.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah. what I say Debbie is that like a lot of those people are that their, jobs are content creation. So their, their business is built on content creation. It's all they do to build their followers and from, and from there, maybe they monetize. Maybe they don't. Some people don't. Right. I know. I know. But for most people that we work with. Right. You're not a content creator, you have your own business and creating content is just one very small part of the puzzle. You've so much more to do than just the content. Creating content isn't a strategy, as you said. It's your offer, it's, you know, having a signature offer and it's about figuring out ultimately, as you said, how to get people on a sales call.

Debbie White:

Absolutely. And I think that gets lost in the noise.

Louise McDonnell:

Absolutely. Well, this has been absolutely amazing. I know you have a fantastic quiz. Tell us about your quiz.

Debbie White:

I do. We have this really fun it's a Clarity Persona profile. Quiz. So if you're like, well, who is my ideal target audience? It's really fun. It, you kind of feed it information. And so what I would suggest is start with where you are. Then go out and do some interviews, ask some people and come back and take it again. You can take it as many times as you want. And it'll kind of, it'll kind of take your answers and map them out in a way where how you should be talking to your audience. And it's like, Oh, so it's really fun.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah, that sounds fantastic. Well, I have thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. so much. If you've enjoyed this conversation, be sure you'll let us know. Let us know. On socials. You'll find me on on LinkedIn, under Louise McDonald. You'll find me on Sell on social m everywhere else. How do people find you, Debbie?

Debbie White:

They'll find me, by going to frankly deb.com and I say this knowing that you're gonna get redirected'cause we're literally under a major re-brand to clarity wins clients, it's all happening like literally right now. But you can find me there.

Louise McDonnell:

And that's actually another thing I meant to say to you, I've just finished with this. I think that people think that once they have their offer, that's going to be the offer for the rest of their careers. And I think what's really important to say is that your offers change maybe about every 18 to 24 months. Would you agree with me?

Debbie White:

I would. We're going through a major shuffle right now. Absolutely. Always changing. Always changing. But, but the big overall, what are you all about? What are you known for? To me, that should stay pretty stable.

Louise McDonnell:

Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. Thank you so much. I've enjoyed this, Carolee. I really appreciate your time.

Debbie White:

So fun. Yeah. You bet.